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I do agree with you, and I hope this is the future. However, in big organizations, which are not exactly nimble, this is even hard to say, "Okay we've been dev

by seren 10y ago

I do agree with you, and I hope this is the future. However, in big organizations, which are not exactly nimble, this is even hard to say, "Okay we've been developing in C++ for 20 years, now the next part of our infrastructure will be written in Rust". This will be seen as an unwanted risk, associated with a training cost. You will have to demonstrate unequivocally Rust's advantage.

bluejekyll 10y ago
Yes, companies that don't want happy employees make these types of monetary decisions. It's their responsibility to their shareholders to do this. It comes at the expense of long-term support of their software though. There are long lists of dead languages still in legacy systems, C and C++ aren't there yet, but I think they are headed that way.
- Yoric 10y ago
  > There are long lists of dead languages still in legacy systems, C and C++ aren't there yet, but I think they are headed that way. I tend to agree with you (and I'm a big fan of Rust), but I'm nearly certain I heard people saying exactly that ~20 years ago. I don't remember which was the language that was expected to replace C/C++, perhaps Java or Obj-C or perhaps some variant of ML. So far, it hasn't quite happened. While C/C++ seem to have become much more niche languages in these ~20 years, I suspect that they won't become legacy language any time soon. Now, I may be wrong. Maybe some revolutionary Rust-base game engine (VR engine? IoT platform?) will shift the landscape drastically any day now, but that's hard to predict.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    Well I believe that if Microsoft had made .NET as they originally were thinking of doing, meaning having .NET Native in 2002 instead of 2016 and not having the internal fights between Windows Dev and DevTools, maybe C++'s role on the desktop wouldn't be what it has turned out to be. On the Apple side of the fence, C++ was mostly used for IOKit with everything else that wasn't inherited from UNIX, being Java or Obj-C. Only later on they decided to drop Java, focus on Obj-C and their C++ usage only increased when they decided to sponsor LLVM and move their toolchains to it. Now we have LLVM as one of the major research compilers available, including for Rust, with all three major desktop companies sponsoring it. However I think this is probably the area where they will stay, systems programming infrastructure.

by seren 10y ago

bluejekyll 10y ago

Yes, companies that don't want happy employees make these types of monetary decisions. It's their responsibility to their shareholders to do this. It comes at the expense of long-term support of their software though. There are long lists of dead languages still in legacy systems, C and C++ aren't there yet, but I think they are headed that way.

Yoric 10y ago
> There are long lists of dead languages still in legacy systems, C and C++ aren't there yet, but I think they are headed that way. I tend to agree with you (and I'm a big fan of Rust), but I'm nearly certain I heard people saying exactly that ~20 years ago. I don't remember which was the language that was expected to replace C/C++, perhaps Java or Obj-C or perhaps some variant of ML. So far, it hasn't quite happened. While C/C++ seem to have become much more niche languages in these ~20 years, I suspect that they won't become legacy language any time soon. Now, I may be wrong. Maybe some revolutionary Rust-base game engine (VR engine? IoT platform?) will shift the landscape drastically any day now, but that's hard to predict.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  Well I believe that if Microsoft had made .NET as they originally were thinking of doing, meaning having .NET Native in 2002 instead of 2016 and not having the internal fights between Windows Dev and DevTools, maybe C++'s role on the desktop wouldn't be what it has turned out to be. On the Apple side of the fence, C++ was mostly used for IOKit with everything else that wasn't inherited from UNIX, being Java or Obj-C. Only later on they decided to drop Java, focus on Obj-C and their C++ usage only increased when they decided to sponsor LLVM and move their toolchains to it. Now we have LLVM as one of the major research compilers available, including for Rust, with all three major desktop companies sponsoring it. However I think this is probably the area where they will stay, systems programming infrastructure.