5 ms·

Most designers are frankly awful at typography. I would argue most design elements on a page can be simply removed if they properly used hierarchy of text to c

Most designers are frankly awful at typography. I would argue most design elements on a page can be simply removed if they properly used hierarchy of text to call out important areas for example.

ThomPete 10y ago
Sure just like you don't need insane convoluted frameworks with a billion dependencies to develop 99% of the web-apps out there yet thats what most developers end up with. This is about self-expression and it's a small price to pay (and easily fixable by just forcing your own style sheet) for getting a vibrant and diverse jungle of content and ways to express it. The rest we can deal with.
- zeveb 10y ago
  > This is about self-expression and it's a small price to pay Is that a small price to pay for worsening the experience of anyone older than maybe 26? I can't even imagine trying to walk my elderly neighbour through installing her own stylesheet, nor trying to explain why none of her sites look right now, even if they are more legible.
  - ThomPete 10y ago
    It's not that simple. If you don't experiment, make mistakes etc. you don't grow.
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      At the other end, if we don't learn form history we are stuck repeating it.
      - ThomPete 10y ago
        We did learn from history. Go back 15 years the web look wastely different and has actually improved quite a lot.
        digi_owl 10y ago
        Jonstokes' rant further up seems to indicate otherwise...
        ThomPete 10y ago
        It's a rant not the truth. There are plenty of well designed websites out there which doesn't actually make those mistakes and I believe the rant to be saturating the actual reality. Pointing to a few examples are nothing but anecdotal evidence.
        Silhouette 10y ago
        Go back 15 years the web look wastely different and has actually improved quite a lot. It's certainly very different. Whether it has improved a lot is debatable. Perhaps more relevant is that I don't think there is any doubt that the web of today is worse than the web of five years ago. The majority of the browser plugins I routinely use today exist entirely to undo some part of that damage, and that includes having a custom stylesheet set up for almost every major web site I use.
        adrianratnapala 10y ago
        15-20 years ago, GUI interfaces tended to suck, generally because you kept having to click through confirmations and do other such mouse dances. Nowadays UIs try to get out of your way more. Good. But in those days, web-sites were actually better. HTML limited the in-your-face interactivity that spoiled the rest of the desktop. People who wanted to put truly awful UI on the web had to use Flash. Now they don't.
  - knieveltech 10y ago
    Check your ageism bub. Some of us have been online longer than you've been alive.
    - zeveb 10y ago
      Ummm, I'm sure you're technically correct about there being folks here who were online before I was born (although there almost certainly aren't a whole lot — I'm pretty old), but my comment was against discriminating against folks based on age-related conditions like declining eyesight. If you're annoyed that I used my elderly neighbour as an example of someone I wouldn't want to explain stylesheets to: she is an actual person, not a rhetorical device; she's a smart person, but not gifted with computers; she has failing eyesight; I help her with computer questions; I honestly wouldn't want to try to explain custom stylesheets to her. It'd be better if folks would build accessible pages from the get-go.
      - knieveltech 10y ago
        Thank you for clarifying your position.
- wott 10y ago
  ? They all look the same. White, white, and more white.

Most designers are frankly awful at typography. I would argue most design elements on a page can be simply removed if they properly used hierarchy of text to call out important areas for example.

ThomPete 10y ago

Sure just like you don't need insane convoluted frameworks with a billion dependencies to develop 99% of the web-apps out there yet thats what most developers end up with. This is about self-expression and it's a small price to pay (and easily fixable by just forcing your own style sheet) for getting a vibrant and diverse jungle of content and ways to express it. The rest we can deal with.

zeveb 10y ago
> This is about self-expression and it's a small price to pay Is that a small price to pay for worsening the experience of anyone older than maybe 26? I can't even imagine trying to walk my elderly neighbour through installing her own stylesheet, nor trying to explain why none of her sites look right now, even if they are more legible.
- ThomPete 10y ago
  It's not that simple. If you don't experiment, make mistakes etc. you don't grow.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    At the other end, if we don't learn form history we are stuck repeating it.
    - ThomPete 10y ago
      We did learn from history. Go back 15 years the web look wastely different and has actually improved quite a lot.
      - digi_owl 10y ago
        Jonstokes' rant further up seems to indicate otherwise...
        ThomPete 10y ago
        It's a rant not the truth. There are plenty of well designed websites out there which doesn't actually make those mistakes and I believe the rant to be saturating the actual reality. Pointing to a few examples are nothing but anecdotal evidence.
      - Silhouette 10y ago
        Go back 15 years the web look wastely different and has actually improved quite a lot. It's certainly very different. Whether it has improved a lot is debatable. Perhaps more relevant is that I don't think there is any doubt that the web of today is worse than the web of five years ago. The majority of the browser plugins I routinely use today exist entirely to undo some part of that damage, and that includes having a custom stylesheet set up for almost every major web site I use.
      - adrianratnapala 10y ago
        15-20 years ago, GUI interfaces tended to suck, generally because you kept having to click through confirmations and do other such mouse dances. Nowadays UIs try to get out of your way more. Good. But in those days, web-sites were actually better. HTML limited the in-your-face interactivity that spoiled the rest of the desktop. People who wanted to put truly awful UI on the web had to use Flash. Now they don't.
- knieveltech 10y ago
  Check your ageism bub. Some of us have been online longer than you've been alive.
  - zeveb 10y ago
    Ummm, I'm sure you're technically correct about there being folks here who were online before I was born (although there almost certainly aren't a whole lot — I'm pretty old), but my comment was against discriminating against folks based on age-related conditions like declining eyesight. If you're annoyed that I used my elderly neighbour as an example of someone I wouldn't want to explain stylesheets to: she is an actual person, not a rhetorical device; she's a smart person, but not gifted with computers; she has failing eyesight; I help her with computer questions; I honestly wouldn't want to try to explain custom stylesheets to her. It'd be better if folks would build accessible pages from the get-go.
    - knieveltech 10y ago
      Thank you for clarifying your position.
wott 10y ago
? They all look the same. White, white, and more white.