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There is a more interesting conclusion we can draw from the data, which is that 90% of people who bought Apple-branded chargers & cables sold on Amazon either:

There is a more interesting conclusion we can draw from the data, which is that 90% of people who bought Apple-branded chargers & cables sold on Amazon either: - didn't care that the products were fake, or - couldn't tell the difference between the two

mikeash 10y ago
Is the second one really that interesting? I have a hard time distinguishing, and I'm a professional in this industry and have been screwing with computers for 30 years. The average Jane or Joe has no chance. That's the whole point of trademark law: the average person can't reasonably detect whether a product is genuine or a ripoff based on its physical properties, so we make it illegal to pretend.
- infodroid 10y ago
  But if the counterfeit is as good as the genuine Apple product then what is the real difference anymore? The same isn't true for counterfeit products in other categories of goods such as designer clothing or accessories, which often use inferior materials, and are easier to detect for the average person.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    I agree that it doesn't matter to the buyer if the counterfeit is just as good. The trouble is that there's a huge middle ground between "just as good" and "obviously crap the moment you pull it out of the box." If a cable frays into uselessness a year after you buy it, or your power adapter is terribly inefficient, or some bit of shoddy construction starts a fire, how are you to know it's because it's a counterfeit and not just because you got a bad product from Apple? Even if you could know, it's too late, they already have your money.
  - pi-rat 10y ago
    Of course there is a big difference, your perfectly packaged charger is more than likely a fire hazard and you might not be able to tell based on the exterior or the first few weeks of usage. http://www.righto.com/2016/03/counterfeit-macbook-charger-teardown.html http://www.righto.com/2016/03/counterfeit-macbook-charger-te...
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    How do you detect whether the components inside a counterfeit Apple charger have the same expected life or failure rate as those inside a genuine one? How do you detect latent manufacturing or handling defects? Just because they perform exactly the same out of the box or for the first few months does not mean they are equivalent in materials and workmanship.
    - infodroid 10y ago
      That's the new thing about counterfeit electronics these days. It's much easier to sell fakes directly to large numbers consumers but it's harder and harder to spot a fake. And most electronics counterfeiters seem to be targeting Apple products.
  - preinheimer 10y ago
    They're not as good though. The outside looks remarkably similar, but the insides are poor imitation. This blog has down a tear down of a number of different knock-offs: http://www.righto.com/2014/05/a-look-inside-ipad-chargers-pricey.html http://www.righto.com/2014/05/a-look-inside-ipad-chargers-pr...
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    "But if the counterfeit is as good as the genuine Apple product then what is the real difference anymore?" They never are, so this is a worthless question to ask. And if the person actually wanted a genuine Apple product, then the person is still being defrauded. You're going to have to do a lot better to explain why some rando on Amazon should be able to sell their product as "genuine Apple" when it is not.
    - infodroid 10y ago
      > They never are, so this is a worthless question to ask. I agree that defrauding people is wrong. But why can't counterfeit goods match or even exceed the quality of the so-called originals? We all know there is a huge markup on "original" products that has nothing to do with cost of materials. So they should be capable of at least matching the quality of the original and selling at a discount.
      - st3v3r 10y ago
        "But why can't counterfeit goods match or even exceed the quality of the so-called originals?" Because they don't care enough about that. They want to pump and dump. "So they should be capable of at least matching the quality of the original and selling at a discount." But why do that when you can do what they're doing now, and make even more money? Especially because you know there is no consequence for doing so.
      - mikeash 10y ago
        Nobody is saying that they're incapable, they simply don't bother.
TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
They perhaps didn't notice or care, but counterfeit chargers and cables can be very dangerous, as they usually have a complete disregard for electrical safety. It could kill you, or kill your device, or burst into flames.
- dkersten 10y ago
  I've had a counterfeit laptop charger explode. Luckily nothing (besides the charger) was damaged. It wasn't a particularly big explosion or anything, just a pop and some smoke, but... Between that and the USB-cable-review-fiasco, I now no longer trust cheap knock-off cables. The chance of them destroying your devices or catching fire is just too great.
- infodroid 10y ago
  Surely the problem isn't counterfeit goods but the fact that there is no practical way to guarantee the electrical safety of goods purchased from Amazon. Why isn't it easier to test electrical safety, or why aren't all cables and chargers spot-check tested for safety?
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    The problem IS counterfeit goods, as when they fail, which they will, the consumer thinks that it's from the brand themselves, which causes them undue hardship.
    - infodroid 10y ago
      Why is it "undue hardship" for a brand to face competition from imitators?
      - st3v3r 10y ago
        Because it's not fair competition. If you competed against a brand with your own brand, and made it clear that you were not associated with that brand, then it'd be ok. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about jackasses that imitate the brand, so the consumer thinks it is the brand that they're dealing with. So when things go wrong, they don't blame the rando counterfeiter, they blame the brand itself.

mikeash 10y ago

Is the second one really that interesting? I have a hard time distinguishing, and I'm a professional in this industry and have been screwing with computers for 30 years. The average Jane or Joe has no chance. That's the whole point of trademark law: the average person can't reasonably detect whether a product is genuine or a ripoff based on its physical properties, so we make it illegal to pretend.

infodroid 10y ago
But if the counterfeit is as good as the genuine Apple product then what is the real difference anymore? The same isn't true for counterfeit products in other categories of goods such as designer clothing or accessories, which often use inferior materials, and are easier to detect for the average person.
- mikeash 10y ago
  I agree that it doesn't matter to the buyer if the counterfeit is just as good. The trouble is that there's a huge middle ground between "just as good" and "obviously crap the moment you pull it out of the box." If a cable frays into uselessness a year after you buy it, or your power adapter is terribly inefficient, or some bit of shoddy construction starts a fire, how are you to know it's because it's a counterfeit and not just because you got a bad product from Apple? Even if you could know, it's too late, they already have your money.
- pi-rat 10y ago
  Of course there is a big difference, your perfectly packaged charger is more than likely a fire hazard and you might not be able to tell based on the exterior or the first few weeks of usage. http://www.righto.com/2016/03/counterfeit-macbook-charger-teardown.html http://www.righto.com/2016/03/counterfeit-macbook-charger-te...
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  How do you detect whether the components inside a counterfeit Apple charger have the same expected life or failure rate as those inside a genuine one? How do you detect latent manufacturing or handling defects? Just because they perform exactly the same out of the box or for the first few months does not mean they are equivalent in materials and workmanship.
  - infodroid 10y ago
    That's the new thing about counterfeit electronics these days. It's much easier to sell fakes directly to large numbers consumers but it's harder and harder to spot a fake. And most electronics counterfeiters seem to be targeting Apple products.
- preinheimer 10y ago
  They're not as good though. The outside looks remarkably similar, but the insides are poor imitation. This blog has down a tear down of a number of different knock-offs: http://www.righto.com/2014/05/a-look-inside-ipad-chargers-pricey.html http://www.righto.com/2014/05/a-look-inside-ipad-chargers-pr...
- st3v3r 10y ago
  "But if the counterfeit is as good as the genuine Apple product then what is the real difference anymore?" They never are, so this is a worthless question to ask. And if the person actually wanted a genuine Apple product, then the person is still being defrauded. You're going to have to do a lot better to explain why some rando on Amazon should be able to sell their product as "genuine Apple" when it is not.
  - infodroid 10y ago
    > They never are, so this is a worthless question to ask. I agree that defrauding people is wrong. But why can't counterfeit goods match or even exceed the quality of the so-called originals? We all know there is a huge markup on "original" products that has nothing to do with cost of materials. So they should be capable of at least matching the quality of the original and selling at a discount.
    - st3v3r 10y ago
      "But why can't counterfeit goods match or even exceed the quality of the so-called originals?" Because they don't care enough about that. They want to pump and dump. "So they should be capable of at least matching the quality of the original and selling at a discount." But why do that when you can do what they're doing now, and make even more money? Especially because you know there is no consequence for doing so.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      Nobody is saying that they're incapable, they simply don't bother.

TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago

They perhaps didn't notice or care, but counterfeit chargers and cables can be very dangerous, as they usually have a complete disregard for electrical safety. It could kill you, or kill your device, or burst into flames.

dkersten 10y ago
I've had a counterfeit laptop charger explode. Luckily nothing (besides the charger) was damaged. It wasn't a particularly big explosion or anything, just a pop and some smoke, but... Between that and the USB-cable-review-fiasco, I now no longer trust cheap knock-off cables. The chance of them destroying your devices or catching fire is just too great.
infodroid 10y ago
Surely the problem isn't counterfeit goods but the fact that there is no practical way to guarantee the electrical safety of goods purchased from Amazon. Why isn't it easier to test electrical safety, or why aren't all cables and chargers spot-check tested for safety?
- st3v3r 10y ago
  The problem IS counterfeit goods, as when they fail, which they will, the consumer thinks that it's from the brand themselves, which causes them undue hardship.
  - infodroid 10y ago
    Why is it "undue hardship" for a brand to face competition from imitators?
    - st3v3r 10y ago
      Because it's not fair competition. If you competed against a brand with your own brand, and made it clear that you were not associated with that brand, then it'd be ok. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about jackasses that imitate the brand, so the consumer thinks it is the brand that they're dealing with. So when things go wrong, they don't blame the rando counterfeiter, they blame the brand itself.