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Over the past year I've gotten increasingly frustrated with the overall Quality of the Amazon shopping "experience." I used to be able to trust Amazon. I could

• wpietri 10y ago
  Yes. For a long time, I felt like they were on my side. But that was before the introduction of ads, obviously manipulated reviews and star scores, and vast arrays of garbage products. Now I feel like they are starting to see me as an object of exploitation. That, alas, is the natural outcome of a metrics-driven management style. If you use short-term measures and see revenue increases as good, then you inevitably stop seeing your customers as people; human relationships are subtle and long term. For a long time no competitor could have gotten my interest, because I trusted Amazon. But now I'd be willing to switch.
  • paulddraper 10y ago
    But the shipping is so great...
  • greggarious 10y ago
    Additionally if you have an issue, they often want you to ship the item back. Personally, I do not own a printer. If the 20 dollar Amazon Basics backpack I buy requires me to metro to a library, print a shipping label, find or buy a box to send it back in, then walk to a post office, that can be 1-2 hours of lost productivity - often more opportunity cost than the item itself cost. Now if something isn't urgent, I'm more likely to just go to a CVS or Walgreens - at least if the item fails I can return it.
    • eknkc 10y ago
      Is this the way it works in US? Won't the shipping company / post office provide a box and print the label?
      • 24gttghh 10y ago
        "UPS pickup: We contact UPS and arrange for them to pick up your package from the address it was originally shipped to. This is ideal for large or heavy items that are hard to carry, and if you select this option before 9:00 p.m. Pacific time, UPS will attempt pickup on the next business day. This option allows you to track your package on its way back to us."[0] [0]https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200572810 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...
        • jamiesonbecker 10y ago
          That's an additional cost.
    • ghufran_syed 10y ago
      I used to have to print a label, but the last time I returned something (about a month ago, in california), the ups / fed-ex guy brought the label with them.
      • cmdrfred 10y ago
        Then you have to wait around all day for the FedEx guy, who will pull up, not see a labeled package and speed away. He is a victim of metrics driven management as well.
  • tajen 10y ago
    Given how much I've been burnt with that, I wish Amazon sales could plunge and become a study case for "what not to do" in management. Ideally we'd make it a verb: To amazonize your company = To drive it with so short-term metrics that you chip the credibility.
    • wpietri 10y ago
      Alas, that behavior is so much part of American business culture that I can't imagine people noticing. Indeed, Amazon is famous for being more long-term than most. It's why they'll take big gambles, like Prime and Kindle. That long-term thinking has let them get so far ahead of their competitors that even with experience quality declining, I'm sure they'll still do well for quite a while.
• pcurve 10y ago
  Amazon shopping experience is slowly turning into that of the Buy.com, if anybody remembers that site.
  • techthroway443 10y ago
    Too much focus on ads, cluttered design and not enough good products?
• pimlottc 10y ago
  > ...But hey 2 day shipping for $8/ month right! Depending on the category, they're not even competitive on cost anymore. "Free shipping" has basically been baked into the costs, such that small items like groceries, home supplies and hardware routinely cost more than what's available at the local big box store. There's still bargains to be had on more expensive things, like electronics (as long as you catch the price flux wave at the right time), but you've got to do your homework. At this point, Amazon is coasting on their market share. They're basically renting out their reputation to anyone with something to sell.
  • heywire 10y ago
    And with brick and mortar retailers like Best Buy price matching Amazon, they're even losing the lead in electronics.
    • gdulli 10y ago
      The best is when you can showroom on Amazon but then go buy at a real store for the same price, no shipping wait or cost.
      • FireBeyond 10y ago
        For a lot of things. I admit Best Buy has got a lot better. But there's still pain points. A lot of hard drive SKUs are tied to retailers, so the same Toshiba hard drive will have an ever-so-slightly different model number, despite being the same drive (and I know there are legitimate reasons for the same), allowing the retailer to deny the price match. "I know these are both Toshiba X300 5TB 3.5" SATA 3 128MB 7200rpm drives, but this is the X300-BBY, not the X300-AMZN, sorry".
        • heywire 10y ago
          I've actually found that Best Buy is pretty reasonable when it comes to this if you point out the specs being identical. But I'm sure it is going to vary depending on who you get and what kind of day they've been having.
• mikeash 10y ago
  You're spot on. I haven't purchased anything on Amazon besides Kindle books for a long time now. I used to buy from Amazon because the buying experience was easy and I could be fairly confident I was getting something close to the best price. Now the experience is terrible and pricing often mediocre. I might as well hit up B&H, NewEgg, Target, Micro Center, or whoever else instead, and buy from whoever has the best offer there.
• DashRattlesnake 10y ago
  > Over the past year I've gotten increasingly frustrated with the overall Quality of the Amazon shopping "experience." Me too, and I can add: 6. Spend time figuring out if the product is available locally for the same (or better) price. I feel like sucker buying from Amazon and waiting a minimum of 2 days to get something I could have gotten locally in 20 minutes for the same/cheaper price. 7. Deal with Amazon's new, terrible delivery service. Using untrained, un-unformed randos to deliver packages in their personal vehicles means my deliveries get screwed up much, much more frequently. I've had these people fail follow my package delivery instructions that are posted on my door (deliver to the apartment office, rather than leaving at the door), even after I've talked to them personally. No other delivery service has this problem. I blame Amazon for this experience far more than the drivers. It's gotten to the point where I only go to Amazon for less-common long-tail stuff. If it's an item that may be reasonably available at a retailer, I just shop locally.
  • thearn4 10y ago
    > Deal with Amazon's new, terrible delivery service. Using untrained, un-unformed randos to deliver packages in their personal vehicles means my deliveries get screwed up much, much more frequently. I was noticing a lot of my deliveries were defaulting to this last year, but we've had mostly UPS/USPS since then. I had assumed that AZ had shifted away from them, but maybe just in my area.
  • ravenstine 10y ago
    > Deal with Amazon's new, terrible delivery service. Oh my god, this. I also never seem to get same-day delivery, despite it being "guaranteed". Amazon seems to have a completely different definition of what a guarantee is. I have also had more damaged items from their own delivery than even FedEx, which is pretty sad when you think about it. I wish they would just buy FedEx and turn it around rather than use their existing rag tag delivery service.
    • wsinks 10y ago
      I've started writing them immediately after I order something. "Guaranteed 2 day shipping" - ordered on Tuesday. That would mean Thursday, right? Wednesday, Thursday. So why does it say that it's coming Friday _immediately_ after? Ridiculous.
• yread 10y ago
  I hate the "Fulfilled by Amazon" or rather the lack of it. If I wanted to pay extra shipping I could just buy it from some other webshop. And don't even get me started on why are all the things that can't be delivered to my country among the results
• nommm-nommm 10y ago
  >3. Figure out if it is "Fulfilled by Amazon" or sold directly (I only recently realized all of the "Fulfilled by Amazon" items get commingled, so I'm getting basically god knows what). Well, speaking as a Amazon seller, this isn't quite true. Commingling is optional for third party sellers (and unavailable on some products). Also your third party sellers items get commingled with Amazon inventory so buying "sold and shipped by Amazon" doesn't prevent you from getting a commingled product. >..But hey 2 day shipping for $8/ month right! Free shipping is prepaid shipping and encourages you to buy a ton of crap to "get your money's worth." Honestly, personally, I don't understand the appeal of getting my stuff in 2 days vs say 4days or whatever. If it was an immediate need I'd either buy locally or pay the upgraded shipping when I need it. That's just me though
  • notyourwork 10y ago
    > Honestly, personally, I don't understand the appeal of getting my stuff in 2 days vs say 4days or whatever. If it was an immediate need I'd either buy locally or pay the upgraded shipping when I need it. That's just me though I agree and when I order never concern myself with prime shipping. However I do find a slight distaste anytime I receive shipping information to find it won't be here for 3+ days. I'm not sure why but something about immediate item receipt is rewarding and waiting for more than a few days I am less excited about receiving said package.
    • nommm-nommm 10y ago
      I don't mind if it takes a while to get to me once it's shipped but I am sorta annoyed when it takes 3 days to ship it.
  • mox1 10y ago
    Yea, you as the seller can tell whether your items are going to get commingled. As a buyer I have no idea (unless there is a way to see this now, as a buyer..). So I kind of have to assume that everything fulfilled by Amazon is.
    • 10y ago
• e40 10y ago
  I bought a cable recently from a company. They said the delivery was 6-8 weeks in the future. Ouch. 2 months later I try and lodge a complaint and they're no longer on Amazon. I review them and find 100's of 1 star reviews from people saying they never got their order. So, someone set up a fake account on Amazon and got a lot of orders, then they disappeared. I'm very disappointed that the "marketplace" has come to this.
  • rwmj 10y ago
    Happened to me twice recently. Seems to be a new kind of scam. You will eventually get your money back, but still, Amazon get your money for months on end, and you have no product.
    • ghufran_syed 10y ago
      If you complain to amazon and they don't refund your money in a reasonable amount of time (2 weeks?), then just get in touch with your credit card company and do a chargeback. To do this, it's best if you keep a record of your interactions with amazon to support your chargeback request
      • Pinckney 10y ago
        Does this not get you banned?
    • e40 10y ago
      As soon as I complained, they refunded me.
• thearn4 10y ago
  Something that I've noticed over the last year is that there is sometimes a disconnect between the overall rating of a product, and a summation of the ratings given by the individual reviews. Like a product with have 4-stars, but the majority of reviews seem to be 1-star. While returns are still pretty easy to do on the buyer side, I used to trust amazon a lot more than I do now, and am considering dropping my prime subscription.
  • obsurveyor 10y ago
    Poster child of the rotten ratings right here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B6ZHV7C?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B6ZHV7C?th=1 (rated 4 stars but 87% of reviews are 1 star)
    • thearn4 10y ago
      Oh wow, that is absolutely blatant rating inflation!
    • PirateDave 10y ago
      I just looked into why that is the case and if you hover over the little dropdown carrot for the "3.8 out of 5" you see this: Amazon calculates a product’s star ratings using a machine learned model instead of a raw data average. The machine learned model takes into account factors including: the age of a review, helpfulness votes by customers and whether the reviews are from verified purchases. So a product would just need a small percentage of 5 star reviews in the beginning of the review period.
• rwmj 10y ago
  A recent scam is for sellers to pop up who have long delivery times and no intention at all of delivering anything. They earn a few good reviews somehow at the beginning (paid? from mad people?) so look respectable. If you order from them, it'll be a couple of months before you realise they are a scam and before you can get your money back from Amazon. Here are a couple of such sellers (I suspect in fact the same seller appearing twice). I was conned by both when ordering some bicycle parts, despite checking their feedback very carefully at the time of the order. I still haven't had a refund from the second one. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aag/main?ie=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=0&isCBA=&marketplaceID=A1F83G8C2ARO7P&orderID=206-3119025-7304336&protocol=current&seller=A2JH4NG9FQUVWP&sshmPath= https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aag/main?ie=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonF... https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aag/main?ie=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=0&isCBA=&marketplaceID=A1F83G8C2ARO7P&orderID=026-3777799-3985951&protocol=current&seller=A1RBPSIGE6LJ27&sshmPath= https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aag/main?ie=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonF...
  • reverend_gonzo 10y ago
    What happens when you file a chargeback? The one thing Amazon has generally been really good with is customer service, and easy returns/refunds.
    • joesmo 10y ago
      Right up till they close your account for returning things, their customer service is excellent.
      • deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      • DanBC 10y ago
        Were you using tor or similar when buying stuff?
        • joesmo 10y ago
          No, just hit some secret limit on returns.
• norea-armozel 10y ago
  I have to wonder if there's an viable alternative to Amazon? It sucks to ask because there's plenty of third party sellers on Amazon that are better than Amazon. It just seems like the baby and bath water situation for me.
  • snovv_crash 10y ago
    I've actually had really good luck with Ebay recently. Also Ebay seems to stock some much more obscure stuff which Amazon wouldn't touch, and even when both have it Ebay has exactly the same thing for cheaper.
    • nommm-nommm 10y ago
      eBay all the way. eBay bucks and shopping portal cashback are icing on the cake.[1] eBay Daily Deals are often good. Sometimes for electronics refurbs and last model items are on the Daily Deals but often new current model stuff too. Got a great deal on my current model phone from an eBay Daily Deal. I buy several 10% off gas cards too when they come up. (New) hard drives are usually cheapest on eBay. Lots of traditional retailers have eBay stores as well. I've bought from Newegg's eBay store more times than I can count, for example. Manufacturers also have eBay stores. There's a lot of room for niche products but it seems a lot less overwhelming than Amazon is with all their private label stuff and poor search results. Lots of good selection of used stuff as well. Do I really need a new Chromecast? Nope, used is half the price and works just as well and is better for the environment. I also hear it's a good place to get uncommon sized bras. eBay has its flaws too though, avoid Chinese megasellers like the plague. Its usually a lot easier to spot a fake or shoddy product on eBay than on Amazon. I've found eBay's customer support to be good when you have a problem and an unreasonable seller. [1] The good thing about eBay cashback portals is they rarely have restrictions other than giftcard restrictions. Target.com may have 2% cash back but excludes Apple products and Bose products. I've never seen brand exclusions on eBay's cash back through shopping portals. There's usually a 1-2% cash back portal for eBay and eBay bucks are a minimum 2% eBay gift card as long as you have over $5.
      • 10y ago
• monksy 10y ago
  Their customer service has gotten just downright crap. Oh you haven't gotten thing you needed, you had to do the following up, and we screwed up? "sorry?". I've had better experiences with my local stores and Aliexpress. I canceled my prime membership (of 5 years) this past Feb and I've been happy about it. Note.. if you want to let it lapse you have to cancel at the right time or strip off the CC on the prime account. If you completely cancel you prime membership it's gone right then and you don't get a prorated refund on the time it had left.
  • jc4p 10y ago
    I have spent more than 15 hours on the phone with Amazon and UPS customer service in the last month. I cancelled my Prime membership (after 10 years) last week after spending 2.5 hours on the phone trying to figure out where a package 2 days past it's guaranteed delivery date was and if it was going to arrive or if I had to re-buy it. I have no regrets about it. Everything I bought on Amazon I can buy from other websites, and when I have an issue I don't have to spend hours verifying my name and address with someone whose accent I honest to god can not understand (I am not a native American, it is very difficult for me to understand Indian accents).
    • monksy 10y ago
      > 15 hours on the phone with Amazon and UPS customer service in the last month. I've had the same issue. Amazon packaged and shipped everything, it got lost in UPS. I did the legwork to track it down. The best I got from them, they could refund so I could get repriced on the items I needed.
    • jungletek 10y ago
      >I am not a native American, it is very difficult for me to understand Indian accents Not sure if you're mixing up American Indian and Indian sub-continent Indian, or you think Americans can understand Indian accents. Either way, I'm amused.
      • cafard 10y ago
• treehau5 10y ago
  Or just buy the damn thing and return if it sucks, instead of stressing out over all these things. Most of what you listed can be casually inferred from the seller, the review rating, and the number of reviews.
  • heywire 10y ago
    > Or just buy the damn thing and return if it sucks ...or when the fake charger you unknowingly received catches fire or ruins your phone?
    • astrodust 10y ago
      Well, just return the charred little bits from the smouldering ruins of your house. People today are so entitled.
    • treehau5 10y ago
      And for that I reference you to the second part of my comment. It is highly unlikely that a highly reviewed, frequently reviewed charger on Amazon will light your phone on fire. As for the second point "what if there is no reviews?" Simply don't buy a charger that doesn't have reviews.
      • heywire 10y ago
        Are you confident enough that a seller who is willing to sell counterfeit chargers is always going to send the same exact counterfeit chargers? I'm not.
        • treehau5 10y ago
          No. I am confident enough that if something has over x number of 5 star reviews (500, 1000, whatever makes you feel confident), the statistical likelihood that I will have a bad experience is small.
      • makomk 10y ago
        If every charger sold lit users phones on fire they wouldn't be in business for long. The dangerous chargers generally have bad QA and inadequate insulation and separation between the mains and output, so almost all of them will work at first but a few will do nasty things like dumping 120V on the output, either immediately or some time later after the insulation abrades or dirt bridges the gap.
• cgvgffyv 10y ago
  Why are you even considering buying baby formula off Amazon? Are you nuts? Can't you ask your pharmacist or something?
  • Broken_Hippo 10y ago
    One of the most unfortunate things about baby formula is that it is expensive. And as a former pharmacy employee, it is more expensive at those outlets. There isn't much the pharmacist can do except perhaps order a specialty formula that isn't on the shelf. Additionally, having a trusted source to send formula as a helpful gift so someone far away doesn't seem like a bad idea.
    • seanp2k2 10y ago
      Make your own, I'm sure it's not as hard as it seems and you can probably buy all the ingredients at New Leaf / Trader Joe's / Whole Foods.
      • Broken_Hippo 10y ago
        It is a theoretically good theory, but not a good idea. In general, doctors recommend folks not do this. [1] A few sites I visited warned folks not to tell their doctors they were feeding the baby homemade formula. One site even said I needed to watch a bunch of additional things, such as whether or not the baby is urinating properly and enough [2] In addition, not everyone lives near those sorts of stores - when I lived in the states, I would have had to drive an hour or two to get to such places and I'm not certain the ingredients are readily available there. Furthermore, there is the issue of time. I'm pretty sure workplaces in the states must allow employees time to express breast milk, but do not allow time to make formula. Recipes range from all day to hours at a time: I'm unsure of the spoilage times on these. Furthermore, not one of the recipes came from a site I would trust at first glance. I don't trust myself to know the nutritional needs of children enough to do this, let alone a lot of other parents uneducated in this area. Also, I don't have children. I'd personally only buy this as a gift to help a friend, and only after asking first. [1]http://wholesomebabyfood.momtastic.com/homemadebabyinfantformula.htm http://wholesomebabyfood.momtastic.com/homemadebabyinfantfor... [2] http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Homemade-Baby-Formula http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Homemade-Baby-Formula
• hanklazard 10y ago
  Totally with you on the paid and sponsored review system. One of the great strengths of Amazon has been allowed to degrade into a biased and untrustworthy advertising system. I used to feel like i could trust reviews but now I'm actively looking for other options--anyone have any recs for product review sites? I'm willing to pay a membership fee for decent information...
  • nommm-nommm 10y ago
    Consumer Reports magazine comes to mind.
  • DenisM 10y ago
    Wirecutter
• deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
• vlunkr 10y ago
  Yeah I recently bought a hard drive enclosure there that is barely functional. I'll admit it was cheap, but it was also one of the first ones to come up in search and had good reviews. It's not the first time either, lots of the electronics I buy turn out to be no-name knock off brands. Including some Apple chargers that claimed to be real. Sometimes you pay more at a dept store, but they also typically don't sell straight up garbage.
• bdrool 10y ago
  Amazon is inching more and more towards a giant fraud operation every day. I'm glad this is getting more attention, however I fear it will continue unabated until someone is seriously injured or killed due to a dangerous knockoff causing a fire or other life-threatening hazard. It's also rather unbelievable to me that big companies like Apple haven't come down on them like a ton of bricks for such large-scale facilitation of trademark violation. It's good that they are finally going after one of the individual vendors, but that's whack-a-mole at the end of the day. How big does the problem have to get before there is pushback against Amazon itself?
  • Florin_Andrei 10y ago
    > It's also rather unbelievable to me that big companies like Apple haven't come down on them like a ton of bricks for such large-scale facilitation of trademark violation. Well, it would be like a ton of bricks coming down on another ton of bricks. The outcome of such lawsuits depends in a fairly large degree on the size of the bank accounts that support the litigation. So they would be fighting an equal.
    • paulddraper 10y ago
      > The outcome of such lawsuits depends in a fairly large degree on the size of the bank accounts that support the litigation. So Oracle underpaid their lawyers?
• ghufran_syed 10y ago
  I never buy anything on there now without looking at this website first to assess the quality of the reviews and the likelihood they are fake: http://fakespot.com/ http://fakespot.com/
• bowlich 10y ago
  Bought a $300 turn table that was being sold directly by Amazon. Package turned up with the box beat to hell. I opened it up and found that all of the accessories (the cartridge, platter, etc.) had been taken out of their factory packaging and put in zip-locks and were just commingled in the box. Amazon picked it up and returned it for free and the second one came factory sealed. But it definitely ruined my evening plans and I ended up waiting four more days for an unopened package to arrive. I'm still pretty sour on it, and Amazon has pretty much lost out on any big electronics purchases from me in the future.
• sytelus 10y ago
  Worst part is that most sellers are labelling themselves as whoever they like. You will find several cables with sub heading "by Apple" only to find out in fine print that it is some Chinese company faking it. There is no concept of "verified dealer" on Amazon. You can basically put up an underwear on Amazon and say its "by Apple". One reason GoPro is down is because tons of knock off directly sold by Chinese firms at fraction price and which clearly undermines all their investment and effort in design. http://imgur.com/a/sZxIZ http://imgur.com/a/sZxIZ
• JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  My wife and I have prime but (for whatever reason) have not linked our accounts, so when she orders something she doesn't get "prime" shipping. We have noticed that over time, her shipments take longer and longer. Used to be the case, even without prime, we'd be promised, say, 5 days and get it sometimes in 3 or 4. Those days are long past (per our experience).
  • cheiVia0 10y ago
    I don't have Prime, and when I make an order with free shipping, it just sits there for a week in "not yet shipped" state, and then does a 2 day shipping to arrive on the delivery date... On the bright side, at least they're honest - I've cancelled the orders a couple of times while they were sitting there because I found what I wanted for a better price somewhere else.
• nartsbtaa 10y ago
  I don't understand how they think this can be in their long term best interests. We're probably among the more technically savvy Amazon users, but navigating through all the crap is still a nightmare. They can't expect everyone to sift through fake reviews, sponsored reviews, fly-by-night companies pedaling cheap knockoffs, "fulfilled by Amazon," etc. People order "five star" products on Amazon, and pieces of junk show up on their doorstep two days later. It's Amazon's reputation that will take the hit.
• ecommerceguy 10y ago
  3. Actually only some categories allow commingling and surprisingly only the largest sellers tend to use it. The reason they use it isn't because of the inconvenience of labeling items inhouse, it's because if a claim comes back to them as damaged or other issue they can point and say "how do you know it's mine?" and they 'win' the dispute with CS. FTR Amazon claims it sickers all commingled inventory to track back to FBA sellers, I have my doubts as internally they use the UPC for scanning. 4. This is where .UK is nice. All seller pages have business listing info as well as VAT numbers. Last point, a lot of the product you buy on A is sourced at those very same stores.
• ryanlol 10y ago
  >4. If Fulfilled, now I have to research how reputable the selling company is. Just yesterday I found a company selling baby formula, whose domain name was registered last month, and via a privacy service!?!!? If you can't list your business address, I'm not buying from you. Come on, basically every registrar forces private registrations on by default now. It's very easy to lie in whois data, those that want to conceal their identities will just lie instead of using a proxy service.
• a3n 10y ago
  The same. Exactly the same. Unless it's obvious that it's Amazon and only Amazon that's selling something, I just won't buy it. Buying at Amazon was supposed to be, and used to be, easy and worry free. Free returns? I want it to work and be in excellent condition when I take it out of the box, and then forget about it. I don't need more work for no pay. I will often peruse Amazon to discover if something exists, and what its variants are. If I can get in my car and get it this afternoon, then I do that.
• Lagged2Death 10y ago
  Would anyone be surprised if a high fraction of similar goods at Target et al were also counterfeits, though? The supply chain can be long and complicated, full of opportunities for an enterprising person to skim a few dollars.
• pasbesoin 10y ago
  Let me add: - A number of recent Prime purchases that have not come within the promised 2 day window (reiterated for/upon that particular purchase, by their site / purchase flow). - Products now consistently poorly packed. Prone to rattling around in their packaging, or being crushed into packaging that's not really appropriate (e.g. "fold-over" cardboard wrappers as opposed to actual boxes). Frequently manifesting at least minor degrees of damage or "dings". - Amazon Basics as well as other products that don't do what they are advertised to do, e.g. an USB C / USB C cable I just purchased whose page says it supports fast charging. Nope. I already have Prime, and so far Amazon has never leaked my credit card information (something that concerns me with many other sites). Aside from that, for physical products, they are... hell, they already have -- turned into a crap experience. IMO.