6 ms·

It replaces the non-free binary blob on the Raspberry Pi that runs right after reset and initializes the processor. Modern complex processors require a specific

It replaces the non-free binary blob on the Raspberry Pi that runs right after reset and initializes the processor. Modern complex processors require a specific and carefully orchestrated series of initialization steps to configure system clocks and ensure external RAM and other peripherals work correctly. Of course no one in their right mind would use this reverse-engineered code here for any serious purpose. Instead, you dump the bastardized RPi platform (it's basically a video graphics card with an ARM bolted on) and use something actually free, like the BeagleBone.

rogual 10y ago
Do you know if there's one of these boards on the market that has: 1. A GPU 2. No binary blobs, no reverse engineering?
- pingswept 10y ago
  I believe the answer is no. You might be interested in monitoring this list of what gets closest: https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/single-board-computers https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/single-board-computers Also, the Novena mainboard has a chance of getting there, if you look at this page: https://www.kosagi.com/w/index.php?title=Novena_Main_Page https://www.kosagi.com/w/index.php?title=Novena_Main_Page and then note that the Vivante GPU is close to having free drivers: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Etnaviv-Vivante-XDC2015 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Etnaviv-...
- abrodersen 10y ago
  I think the Jetson TK1 from NVIDIA can run mainline Linux with most of the devices working.
  - ansible 10y ago
    I actually have one of those, but never investigated the bootloader situation for that platform. And to get good use out of the GPU (one of the main selling points for this platform), you'll want to use the Nvidia proprietary driver.
    - dezgeg 10y ago
      The K1 chip has a blob-free boot (unlike the newer chips AFAIK) except for the USB-based flash programming / recovery mode, so for the initial installation you'd need to manually flash the eMMC somehow if you don't want to run any proprietary code. And yes, CUDA isn't supported by the open drivers. Other than that, I've heard Nouveau works relatively well. Though I'm not still sure if the open source graphics community has figured out a way to get stacks like Xorg or Wayland/Weston running without hacking the source on architectures where rendering and scanout are done by different DRM devices.
      - aleden 10y ago
        NVIDIA has made it possible to run the Jetson TK1 under Nouveau with hardware accelerated graphics (Weston/Wayland or X). https://github.com/NVIDIA/tegra-nouveau-rootfs https://github.com/NVIDIA/tegra-nouveau-rootfs Using a completely open stack on the TK1, from u-boot to kernel (except for the USB firmware), I can run ARM virtual machines with QEMU/KVM.
- wolfgke 10y ago
  Intel GPUs require neither a blob nor reverse engineering, so ironically the Minnowboard (http://wiki.minnowboard.org/MinnowBoard_Wiki_Home; http://wiki.minnowboard.org/MinnowBoard_Wiki_Home; current revision is "Minnowboard Turbot") is very open (also the UEFI implementation (TianaCore) is open source; just a small FSP (Firmware Support Package) by Intel containing binary data has to be compiled in - as far as I know it contains no suspicious data; start at https://firmware.intel.com/projects/minnowboard-max https://firmware.intel.com/projects/minnowboard-max if you want to read about the details). I am rather sure this processor/board has no support for the dreaded Intel AMT. If you want an ARM board: The "Sabre Lite - i.MX6 Quad Core" board is the nearest to this ideal that I know of. Traditionally Freescale has been very open with the specifications (though after NXP bought them this changed to worse). The GPU (Vivante™ GC2000) is not strictly in the category "No binary blobs, no reverse engineering", but I have read that this is among the GPUs found on ARM boards by far the most easy one to reverse engineer, thus there seems to exist a decent reverse-engineered driver: > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Free_and_open-source_graphics_device_driver&oldid=744650304#Vivante https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Free_and_open-sou... (EDIT: For the situation for open Vivante drivers also see https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Etnaviv-Vivante-XDC2015 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Etnaviv-... (from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12743550) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12743550)).
  - ddon 10y ago
    Looks like this Minnowboard is costly... looks like it cost about 200 dollars. :-/
    - wolfgke 10y ago
      According to the two shop links on http://wiki.minnowboard.org/Where_to_buy http://wiki.minnowboard.org/Where_to_buy the Minnowboard Turbot costs $139.95 (Netgate) or $150.00 (Mouser). The SABRE Lite i.MX 6Quad has a similar price: On > http://uk.farnell.com/nxp/mcimx6q-sl/i-mx6-quad-sabre-lite-dev-kit/dp/2124398 http://uk.farnell.com/nxp/mcimx6q-sl/i-mx6-quad-sabre-lite-d... it costs £114.29 (about $140), on Mouser it is even $189.95.
TD-Linux 10y ago
>and use something actually free, like the BeagleBone. Oh please, while you lose the VC4 firmware, you instead get a proprietary PowerVR GPU with no free drivers. Not to mention that the Beaglebone has a much worse CPU than the "bolted on ARM" of the RPi. If you're going to dump the rpi for this reason, going to something like the imx6 used in the Cubieboard and Novena would make a lot more sense (edit: Cubox, not Cubieboard).
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > If you're going to dump the rpi for this reason, going to something like the imx6 used in the Cubieboard and Novena would make a lot more sense. The Cubieboard uses an Allwinner SoC, which has a bad reputation among oppen source people since Allwinner violated the GPL multiple times in the past (though I heard the Linux support is decent; mainly because of the work of the Sunxi community: https://linux-sunxi.org/Main_Page https://linux-sunxi.org/Main_Page). Novena (and "Sabre Lite - i.MX6 Quad Core"; cf. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12743798 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12743798) indeed use a Freescale (now bought by NXP) SoC.
  - TD-Linux 10y ago
    Oops, I confused Cubieboard and Cubox, which does have an i.MX6.
- monocasa 10y ago
  Unfortunately NXP is nuking most of the iMX6 support from orbit after they bought Freescale. Even things like most of the SD card images for their SABRE boards were deleted of their site. It's only due to the large open ecosystem around the iMX6 that we were able to debug some issues while bringing up a board recently.
  - webscaleizfun 10y ago
    Same thing happened with Allwinner's SOCs, when the one point of contact that was providing the source of their modified kernel left, Allwinner chipsets stopped getting rapid mainline kernel support. The silver lining though is that the sunxi community has been working to mainline newer chips like the Allwinner H3 & has been doing a bang up job with minimal info, newer kernels can boot up & get most hardware onboard configured & ready to use.

rogual 10y ago

Do you know if there's one of these boards on the market that has: 1. A GPU 2. No binary blobs, no reverse engineering?

pingswept 10y ago
I believe the answer is no. You might be interested in monitoring this list of what gets closest: https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/single-board-computers https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/single-board-computers Also, the Novena mainboard has a chance of getting there, if you look at this page: https://www.kosagi.com/w/index.php?title=Novena_Main_Page https://www.kosagi.com/w/index.php?title=Novena_Main_Page and then note that the Vivante GPU is close to having free drivers: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Etnaviv-Vivante-XDC2015 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Etnaviv-...
abrodersen 10y ago
I think the Jetson TK1 from NVIDIA can run mainline Linux with most of the devices working.
- ansible 10y ago
  I actually have one of those, but never investigated the bootloader situation for that platform. And to get good use out of the GPU (one of the main selling points for this platform), you'll want to use the Nvidia proprietary driver.
  - dezgeg 10y ago
    The K1 chip has a blob-free boot (unlike the newer chips AFAIK) except for the USB-based flash programming / recovery mode, so for the initial installation you'd need to manually flash the eMMC somehow if you don't want to run any proprietary code. And yes, CUDA isn't supported by the open drivers. Other than that, I've heard Nouveau works relatively well. Though I'm not still sure if the open source graphics community has figured out a way to get stacks like Xorg or Wayland/Weston running without hacking the source on architectures where rendering and scanout are done by different DRM devices.
    - aleden 10y ago
      NVIDIA has made it possible to run the Jetson TK1 under Nouveau with hardware accelerated graphics (Weston/Wayland or X). https://github.com/NVIDIA/tegra-nouveau-rootfs https://github.com/NVIDIA/tegra-nouveau-rootfs Using a completely open stack on the TK1, from u-boot to kernel (except for the USB firmware), I can run ARM virtual machines with QEMU/KVM.
wolfgke 10y ago
Intel GPUs require neither a blob nor reverse engineering, so ironically the Minnowboard (http://wiki.minnowboard.org/MinnowBoard_Wiki_Home; http://wiki.minnowboard.org/MinnowBoard_Wiki_Home; current revision is "Minnowboard Turbot") is very open (also the UEFI implementation (TianaCore) is open source; just a small FSP (Firmware Support Package) by Intel containing binary data has to be compiled in - as far as I know it contains no suspicious data; start at https://firmware.intel.com/projects/minnowboard-max https://firmware.intel.com/projects/minnowboard-max if you want to read about the details). I am rather sure this processor/board has no support for the dreaded Intel AMT. If you want an ARM board: The "Sabre Lite - i.MX6 Quad Core" board is the nearest to this ideal that I know of. Traditionally Freescale has been very open with the specifications (though after NXP bought them this changed to worse). The GPU (Vivante™ GC2000) is not strictly in the category "No binary blobs, no reverse engineering", but I have read that this is among the GPUs found on ARM boards by far the most easy one to reverse engineer, thus there seems to exist a decent reverse-engineered driver: > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Free_and_open-source_graphics_device_driver&oldid=744650304#Vivante https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Free_and_open-sou... (EDIT: For the situation for open Vivante drivers also see https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Etnaviv-Vivante-XDC2015 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Etnaviv-... (from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12743550) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12743550)).
- ddon 10y ago
  Looks like this Minnowboard is costly... looks like it cost about 200 dollars. :-/
  - wolfgke 10y ago
    According to the two shop links on http://wiki.minnowboard.org/Where_to_buy http://wiki.minnowboard.org/Where_to_buy the Minnowboard Turbot costs $139.95 (Netgate) or $150.00 (Mouser). The SABRE Lite i.MX 6Quad has a similar price: On > http://uk.farnell.com/nxp/mcimx6q-sl/i-mx6-quad-sabre-lite-dev-kit/dp/2124398 http://uk.farnell.com/nxp/mcimx6q-sl/i-mx6-quad-sabre-lite-d... it costs £114.29 (about $140), on Mouser it is even $189.95.

TD-Linux 10y ago

>and use something actually free, like the BeagleBone. Oh please, while you lose the VC4 firmware, you instead get a proprietary PowerVR GPU with no free drivers. Not to mention that the Beaglebone has a much worse CPU than the "bolted on ARM" of the RPi. If you're going to dump the rpi for this reason, going to something like the imx6 used in the Cubieboard and Novena would make a lot more sense (edit: Cubox, not Cubieboard).

wolfgke 10y ago
> If you're going to dump the rpi for this reason, going to something like the imx6 used in the Cubieboard and Novena would make a lot more sense. The Cubieboard uses an Allwinner SoC, which has a bad reputation among oppen source people since Allwinner violated the GPL multiple times in the past (though I heard the Linux support is decent; mainly because of the work of the Sunxi community: https://linux-sunxi.org/Main_Page https://linux-sunxi.org/Main_Page). Novena (and "Sabre Lite - i.MX6 Quad Core"; cf. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12743798 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12743798) indeed use a Freescale (now bought by NXP) SoC.
- TD-Linux 10y ago
  Oops, I confused Cubieboard and Cubox, which does have an i.MX6.
monocasa 10y ago
Unfortunately NXP is nuking most of the iMX6 support from orbit after they bought Freescale. Even things like most of the SD card images for their SABRE boards were deleted of their site. It's only due to the large open ecosystem around the iMX6 that we were able to debug some issues while bringing up a board recently.
- webscaleizfun 10y ago
  Same thing happened with Allwinner's SOCs, when the one point of contact that was providing the source of their modified kernel left, Allwinner chipsets stopped getting rapid mainline kernel support. The silver lining though is that the sunxi community has been working to mainline newer chips like the Allwinner H3 & has been doing a bang up job with minimal info, newer kernels can boot up & get most hardware onboard configured & ready to use.