5 ms·

it's not a very smart move to publish this right before the election. "Even Harvard says the election is rigged."

by d--b 10y ago

skummetmaelk 10y ago
It is probably the smartest move if you want it to be seen and taken seriously though.
- lallysingh 10y ago
  Especially through your H-Index.
pixl97 10y ago
But Obama says the elections are not rigged, how can this be?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- e1g 10y ago
  I just recently heard of Obama's position you're referring to, and I had a different interpretation. "Rigged" means a coordinated and malicious manipulation - this is something that before Trump no one had claimed (the GOP or otherwise). "Flawed", or even "fraud", is more subtle - for example, an electoral administrator miscounting votes due to strange patriotism, lack of training, indifference, or excessive partisanship. I saw Obama's point as being rooted in "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence", and that actually rigging the election in the US (and getting away with it) is a lot more complex than it seems on surface. Sort of like faking the moon landing.
  - TheGirondin 10y ago
    >"Rigged" means a coordinated and malicious manipulation - this is something that before Trump no one had claimed (the GOP or otherwise). There were (and still are) wide spread claims that Republicans outright stole the results of the 2004 election in Ohio, going all the way to John Kerry himself. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/12/21/negotiating-the-whirlwind http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/12/21/negotiating-the... Refusing to accept election losses has been a hallmark of Democrats in the last 20 years. They refuse to accept the 2000 election, said that Republicans stole the state of OH in 2004, and even now claim that the current Republican majorities in both the House and Senate are the result of "gerrymandering."
  - camiller 10y ago
    "this is something that before Trump no one had claimed (the GOP or otherwise)" Except when Democrats claimed Bush stole the election. Otherwise no one has ever...
- baldfat 10y ago
  PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING: We are on Hacker News where we should care about data. Show some kind of data of this happening in a national campaign in America???? Show one election at a state or national level where this has happened. Also show how this happens? The only place this would even matter for President is in swing states. Show data and process then we can talk. Right now your doing the best North Korean Propaganda ever and undercutting democracy with no data to show anything is rigged. I prefer democracy and don't prefer a dictator. Why is it okay to destroy the American system to make it great again?
  - coldpie 10y ago
    > Show some kind of data of this happening in a national campaign in America???? Show one election at a state or national level where this has happened. There are no such examples. Voter fraud and election rigging is not an issue in the United States.
  - pixl97 10y ago
    Whatever happened to the Diebold voting machine company anyway?
    - camiller 10y ago
      Diebold changed the name then sold the voting machine division to ES&S, which later sold it off due to monopoly charges to Dominion. "As of August 2010, Dominion voting machines are used in 600 jurisdictions in 22 states" - wikipedia
Taek 10y ago
This is when people care about elections. Right now pretty much everybody, even non-Americans, is desperate for something sane to happen. Everyone is saying to themselves right now "surely there is a better way..." This is the perfect time for a name like Harvard to say "yes, there is a better way, here it is..."
- CalChris 10y ago
  Similarly a lot of people are desperate for something insane to happen, particularly the media. The whole Trump spectacle has been an ad driving frenzy. This is the wrong time to propose anything reasonable. We can't even get a hearing on a Supreme Court nomination. Now is a time to be endured with some embarrassment until things quiet down. That'll be at least a year or two.
onion2k 10y ago
'Flawed' and 'rigged' are very different terms.
- rhaps0dy 10y ago
  Good find. But I don't think this is going to matter.
- Alex3917 10y ago
  They're both flawed and rigged. E.g. the electoral voting system is flawed. And the DNC purging 200,000 voters in Brooklyn makes it rigged.

it's not a very smart move to publish this right before the election. "Even Harvard says the election is rigged."

by d--b 10y ago

it's not a very smart move to publish this right before the election. "Even Harvard says the election is rigged."

skummetmaelk 10y ago

It is probably the smartest move if you want it to be seen and taken seriously though.

lallysingh 10y ago
Especially through your H-Index.

pixl97 10y ago

But Obama says the elections are not rigged, how can this be?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
e1g 10y ago
I just recently heard of Obama's position you're referring to, and I had a different interpretation. "Rigged" means a coordinated and malicious manipulation - this is something that before Trump no one had claimed (the GOP or otherwise). "Flawed", or even "fraud", is more subtle - for example, an electoral administrator miscounting votes due to strange patriotism, lack of training, indifference, or excessive partisanship. I saw Obama's point as being rooted in "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence", and that actually rigging the election in the US (and getting away with it) is a lot more complex than it seems on surface. Sort of like faking the moon landing.
- TheGirondin 10y ago
  >"Rigged" means a coordinated and malicious manipulation - this is something that before Trump no one had claimed (the GOP or otherwise). There were (and still are) wide spread claims that Republicans outright stole the results of the 2004 election in Ohio, going all the way to John Kerry himself. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/12/21/negotiating-the-whirlwind http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/12/21/negotiating-the... Refusing to accept election losses has been a hallmark of Democrats in the last 20 years. They refuse to accept the 2000 election, said that Republicans stole the state of OH in 2004, and even now claim that the current Republican majorities in both the House and Senate are the result of "gerrymandering."
- camiller 10y ago
  "this is something that before Trump no one had claimed (the GOP or otherwise)" Except when Democrats claimed Bush stole the election. Otherwise no one has ever...
baldfat 10y ago
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING: We are on Hacker News where we should care about data. Show some kind of data of this happening in a national campaign in America???? Show one election at a state or national level where this has happened. Also show how this happens? The only place this would even matter for President is in swing states. Show data and process then we can talk. Right now your doing the best North Korean Propaganda ever and undercutting democracy with no data to show anything is rigged. I prefer democracy and don't prefer a dictator. Why is it okay to destroy the American system to make it great again?
- coldpie 10y ago
  > Show some kind of data of this happening in a national campaign in America???? Show one election at a state or national level where this has happened. There are no such examples. Voter fraud and election rigging is not an issue in the United States.
- pixl97 10y ago
  Whatever happened to the Diebold voting machine company anyway?
  - camiller 10y ago
    Diebold changed the name then sold the voting machine division to ES&S, which later sold it off due to monopoly charges to Dominion. "As of August 2010, Dominion voting machines are used in 600 jurisdictions in 22 states" - wikipedia

Taek 10y ago

This is when people care about elections. Right now pretty much everybody, even non-Americans, is desperate for something sane to happen. Everyone is saying to themselves right now "surely there is a better way..." This is the perfect time for a name like Harvard to say "yes, there is a better way, here it is..."

CalChris 10y ago
Similarly a lot of people are desperate for something insane to happen, particularly the media. The whole Trump spectacle has been an ad driving frenzy. This is the wrong time to propose anything reasonable. We can't even get a hearing on a Supreme Court nomination. Now is a time to be endured with some embarrassment until things quiet down. That'll be at least a year or two.

onion2k 10y ago

'Flawed' and 'rigged' are very different terms.

rhaps0dy 10y ago
Good find. But I don't think this is going to matter.
Alex3917 10y ago
They're both flawed and rigged. E.g. the electoral voting system is flawed. And the DNC purging 200,000 voters in Brooklyn makes it rigged.