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This is fucking crazy and why the world should really switch economic systems asap. Why do I have to buy new shit if 1 thing gets broke? Repairs should be the s

This is fucking crazy and why the world should really switch economic systems asap. Why do I have to buy new shit if 1 thing gets broke? Repairs should be the standard. Why are all phones bought as one piece? Laptops? I want to have the components as modules that is easy to switch or upgrade. The problem with this in our economic system is that it's not rewarded and actually not feasible due to lack of profit. More stuff like the fairphone (https://shop.fairphone.com/en/ https://shop.fairphone.com/en/) please.

endswapper 10y ago
Fairphone looks interesting. So did Google's Ara. I agree with your point that it is the economic system. However, I do think it is feasible, but it is complicated because it requires cooperation with manufacturers, governments, recyclers and consumers. If you didn't see it, there is a recent, existing conversation on the economic system here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12733659 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12733659
raisedbyninjas 10y ago
It may be six of one, half dozen of the other, but the important issue isn't rewarding repairable and durable goods. It's that we need to penalize externalizing costs. The electronics, energy, and meat industries come to mind first. I could get behind modular phones if they weren't 50% bigger than an integrated alternative and more expensive.
- weavie 10y ago
  I guess every one is different. I would happily take a 100% size increase if it meant I could upgrade and fix it myself.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- ChuckMcM 10y ago
  I think its the externalities that kill it. A fully documented and repairable computer would add 30 - 40% to it's end user cost. That cost comes from the requirement to track changes at the component level back to the individual replaceable subsystems (FRUs). I also note with some irony that there are ways to dispose of these electronics which will take all of the people out of the equation. Incineration and refinement is a thing. There is a plant in Milpitas CA that can take electronics, grind it through chompers into powder, material separate the grind through a series of steps, and then incinerate the "light" stuff, and refine the metals. One of their things is getting the gold and some rare earths out of chips and circuit boards through their process. Then there are Apple's "disassembly" robots. Which take apart things, that makes for better aluminum recovery in Apple gear.
tcfunk 10y ago
Interesting to me that they are on "Fairphone 2". Doesn't that defeat the purpose of this?
pingswept 10y ago
Here's the best current attempt at what you're imagining: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop
FussyZeus 10y ago
You say this as if there isn't a widespread base of consumers who don't want to tinker, don't want to upgrade and don't want to assemble and the only problem is manufacturers don't want to make modular phones. Frankly a modular phone sounds godawful. I work all week and build stuff in my spare time, I don't want yet another thing I need to maintain and that's why I have an iPhone. There's no reason we can't have proper disposal methods and environmentally sound manufacturing -AND- have single-piece prebuilt devices. I'd argue that making stuff modular wouldn't even solve that problem in the first place, you'd just have piles and piles of PIECES of phones instead of piles and piles of phones.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  > I'd argue that making stuff modular wouldn't even solve that problem in the first place, you'd just have piles and piles of PIECES of phones instead of piles and piles of phones. Presumably, with better parts standardization, you'd have companies buying off broken phones and reassembling the still working components into new phones. Sort of what happens in Shenzhen, but on a larger scale.
jasonkostempski 10y ago
"not feasible due to lack of profit" Is that really true or is it just that they can make more doing it the way they are? I'd love to see a big company that boast about the money they're not making because they have standards they're not willing to give up on.
leejoramo 10y ago
The waste I see in these photos is not one-piece phones or laptops. They are the components of desktops. In theory most of these cases, power supplies, mother boards and cables could be reused.
- darod 10y ago
  these are computers from at least 15 years ago. wait a few more when people start throwing out the "hand me down" phones.
stickfigure 10y ago
I want to have the components as modules that is easy to switch or upgrade. This was standard for computers back in the 80s and 90s and has become less popular over time. The problem is twofold: 1) all components tend to become obsolete at the same time and 2) the bus itself becomes obsolete. So even the most modular computers - which cost more, were physically larger, and contained more e-waste - tended to get replaced wholesale anyway. Computer upgradability is a myth.
medius 10y ago
Repairing is one part, but the software "upgrades" are also responsible for this. I have a 3-4 years old iPad. It's in perfect condition. No hardware problems at all and very minimal scratches. I take good care of it. But Apple keeps forcing me to update iOS to newer and newer versions. Also, the apps stop supporting the older OS. But upgrading it causes it to slow down. New iOS and app version seems to be bloated more and more. Even simple web-browsing is slow which used to be fine before the updates. I'm sticking to it for now, but it's slowly getting unusable and might end up in e-waste before its time.
yekim 10y ago
Thanks for posting re: the fairphone. Never heard of that before. Got any personal first hand experience with it?

endswapper 10y ago

Fairphone looks interesting. So did Google's Ara. I agree with your point that it is the economic system. However, I do think it is feasible, but it is complicated because it requires cooperation with manufacturers, governments, recyclers and consumers. If you didn't see it, there is a recent, existing conversation on the economic system here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12733659 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12733659

raisedbyninjas 10y ago

It may be six of one, half dozen of the other, but the important issue isn't rewarding repairable and durable goods. It's that we need to penalize externalizing costs. The electronics, energy, and meat industries come to mind first. I could get behind modular phones if they weren't 50% bigger than an integrated alternative and more expensive.

weavie 10y ago
I guess every one is different. I would happily take a 100% size increase if it meant I could upgrade and fix it myself.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
ChuckMcM 10y ago
I think its the externalities that kill it. A fully documented and repairable computer would add 30 - 40% to it's end user cost. That cost comes from the requirement to track changes at the component level back to the individual replaceable subsystems (FRUs). I also note with some irony that there are ways to dispose of these electronics which will take all of the people out of the equation. Incineration and refinement is a thing. There is a plant in Milpitas CA that can take electronics, grind it through chompers into powder, material separate the grind through a series of steps, and then incinerate the "light" stuff, and refine the metals. One of their things is getting the gold and some rare earths out of chips and circuit boards through their process. Then there are Apple's "disassembly" robots. Which take apart things, that makes for better aluminum recovery in Apple gear.

tcfunk 10y ago

Interesting to me that they are on "Fairphone 2". Doesn't that defeat the purpose of this?

pingswept 10y ago

Here's the best current attempt at what you're imagining: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop

FussyZeus 10y ago

You say this as if there isn't a widespread base of consumers who don't want to tinker, don't want to upgrade and don't want to assemble and the only problem is manufacturers don't want to make modular phones. Frankly a modular phone sounds godawful. I work all week and build stuff in my spare time, I don't want yet another thing I need to maintain and that's why I have an iPhone. There's no reason we can't have proper disposal methods and environmentally sound manufacturing -AND- have single-piece prebuilt devices. I'd argue that making stuff modular wouldn't even solve that problem in the first place, you'd just have piles and piles of PIECES of phones instead of piles and piles of phones.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
> I'd argue that making stuff modular wouldn't even solve that problem in the first place, you'd just have piles and piles of PIECES of phones instead of piles and piles of phones. Presumably, with better parts standardization, you'd have companies buying off broken phones and reassembling the still working components into new phones. Sort of what happens in Shenzhen, but on a larger scale.

jasonkostempski 10y ago

"not feasible due to lack of profit" Is that really true or is it just that they can make more doing it the way they are? I'd love to see a big company that boast about the money they're not making because they have standards they're not willing to give up on.

leejoramo 10y ago

The waste I see in these photos is not one-piece phones or laptops. They are the components of desktops. In theory most of these cases, power supplies, mother boards and cables could be reused.

darod 10y ago
these are computers from at least 15 years ago. wait a few more when people start throwing out the "hand me down" phones.

stickfigure 10y ago

I want to have the components as modules that is easy to switch or upgrade. This was standard for computers back in the 80s and 90s and has become less popular over time. The problem is twofold: 1) all components tend to become obsolete at the same time and 2) the bus itself becomes obsolete. So even the most modular computers - which cost more, were physically larger, and contained more e-waste - tended to get replaced wholesale anyway. Computer upgradability is a myth.

medius 10y ago

Repairing is one part, but the software "upgrades" are also responsible for this. I have a 3-4 years old iPad. It's in perfect condition. No hardware problems at all and very minimal scratches. I take good care of it. But Apple keeps forcing me to update iOS to newer and newer versions. Also, the apps stop supporting the older OS. But upgrading it causes it to slow down. New iOS and app version seems to be bloated more and more. Even simple web-browsing is slow which used to be fine before the updates. I'm sticking to it for now, but it's slowly getting unusable and might end up in e-waste before its time.

yekim 10y ago

Thanks for posting re: the fairphone. Never heard of that before. Got any personal first hand experience with it?