4 ms·

ESA needs to learn a thing or two from NASA about public relations. And then choose whether or not to practise these teachings based on space/weight constraint

ESA needs to learn a thing or two from NASA about public relations. And then choose whether or not to practise these teachings based on space/weight constraints and the type of mission (scientific, in this case). I'm sure they did think about it for a minute, but I have the feeling that the European public opinion doesn't have a "picture or it didn't happen" attitude.

rubber_duck 10y ago
>but I have the feeling that the European public opinion doesn't have a "picture or it didn't happen" attitude It's more that these things are funded up the EU chain, people deciding it don't even need to get elected (and EU representatives get elected on a different issues) so they probably don't give a shit what the public thinks about them spending their money.
- arethuza 10y ago
  Most (80%) of ESA's funding comes directly from countries, not via the EU, so the people making funding decisions are very much directly elected: http://www.esa.int/About_Us/Welcome_to_ESA/ESA_and_the_EU http://www.esa.int/About_Us/Welcome_to_ESA/ESA_and_the_EU NB I don't know if funding decisions are made on a project by project basis. Edit: Also for the European Commissioners are appointed by the elected governments of member states.
  - rubber_duck 10y ago
    >Also for the European Commissioners are appointed by the elected governments of member states. Who campaign and are elected on issues totally unrelated to things like this. Basically the public probably doesn't even know it's paying for this until it's reported in the news. At least stuff like this gets debated in the US. For example if I walked around in my office among 20 people (with higher education and into tech) and ask them what ESA is I doubt 5 would know what it stands for and even less that they are paying for it. Everyone knows what NASA is.
    - jkirsteins 10y ago
      > Who campaign and are elected on issues totally unrelated Should politicians refuse to do anything that was not in their campaign leaflets? > For example if I walked around in my office among 20 ... Try it out. In my opinion, this is a very unlikely hypothetical. I'm from a country that is not a member of the ESA - never met a person yet that doesn't know what it is, or stands for. Rosetta in particular caused a lot of excitement, it was on the news a lot, people were following ESA and the lander's accounts on Twitter etc.
      - rubber_duck 10y ago
        >Should politicians refuse to do anything that was not in their campaign leaflets? No - my point is there is no pressure to improve PR because it's not a voting issue for the people deciding it's funding in EU. >In my opinion, this is a very unlikely hypothetical. Just asked 4 next to my desk - only one knew what "ESA" stands for, expected since he's in to that kind of thing - don't feel like disturbing more people :)
      - coldtea 10y ago
        >Should politicians refuse to do anything that was not in their campaign leaflets? It would be great, yes. They could also ask the public anew when such a thing emerges... >In my opinion, this is a very unlikely hypothetical. I'm from a country that is not a member of the ESA - never met a person yet that doesn't know what it is, or stands for. For real? Where did you ask, inside the ESA headquarters? The average EU citizen has absolutely no idea what ESA is or does.
        merraksh 10y ago
        The average EU citizen has absolutely no idea what ESA is or does. Source? a good percentage of the people I know from Europe does. >Should politicians refuse to do anything that was not in their campaign leaflets? It would be great, yes. They should refuse to do anything that was against (or far from what was in) their program. Leaflets hardly reflect all of a candidate's program.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >so the people making funding decisions are very much directly elected ESA funding is NEVER on the table as a topic of discussion in any kind of public elections of such officials in the EU.
    - arethuza 10y ago
      European space efforts did used to be discussed openly by politicians in the UK - you can imagine how that worked out: "as a waste of money merely 'to put a Frenchman into space.'"
- merraksh 10y ago
  Funding decisions are made by the EU and by member states [0]. Given the executive and legislative structure of the EU and of its states, budget does involve decisions made by elected people. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency#Member_states.2C_funding_and_budget https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency#Member_s...
  - rubber_duck 10y ago
    Decisions in administrative sense maybe, but my point is that it's not a topic that comes up in the election at all - unlike NASA in the US - so there is 0 incentive to sell it to the public.
    - merraksh 10y ago
      Does NASA come up in presidential elections, mid-term elections, or state governor elections? Given that the US is a federation and the EU is a union, I would not expect European elections (which are parliamentary) to mention that, as each country selects its MPs for representation in the EU parliament. Besides, I didn't hear NASA mentioned in the Clinton/Trump debate so far, though I didn't follow it closely.
dingaling 10y ago
Plus most instruments on ESA nmissions are sponsored by their implementing institutions e.g. Universities, not ESA. If no sponsor saw scientific benefit in a camera then no camera goes . They also own the data from their instruments, so ESA is restricted in what material it can release during a mission.
- avz 10y ago
  > Plus most instruments on ESA nmissions are sponsored by their implementing institutions e.g. Universities, not ESA. This is true. Regrettably. The instruments are often built using public money and the platforms they sit on are almost always launched using public money, but the affiliated universities get to restrict everyone else's access to the data for years. I personally know people working at ESA who were denied the right to publish their work and whose conference talks (in the area of interplanetary navigation) were censored by their managers because it was feared that they would reveal too much information which could conceivably be used by scientists from unaffiliated institutions in their research. Open access is not big in ESA at all. This is a complete opposite of NASA's commitment to keep all data acquired with public money open to the public.
gghh 10y ago
Maybe the public opinion doesn't need pictures to feel proud of this scientific/engineering feat, but I think policy makers (here: ESA mission managers) should consider the inspiring impact images have on people, especially the youngest. When I can show a pic to my nephews and say "look, this is from another planet!" their eyes shine. And some of those excited kids could one day do science themselves, and advance our knowledge. I think it's an investment one should consider making, beyond the mere going there and collect rocks (which, of course, is the essential part).

rubber_duck 10y ago

>but I have the feeling that the European public opinion doesn't have a "picture or it didn't happen" attitude It's more that these things are funded up the EU chain, people deciding it don't even need to get elected (and EU representatives get elected on a different issues) so they probably don't give a shit what the public thinks about them spending their money.

arethuza 10y ago
Most (80%) of ESA's funding comes directly from countries, not via the EU, so the people making funding decisions are very much directly elected: http://www.esa.int/About_Us/Welcome_to_ESA/ESA_and_the_EU http://www.esa.int/About_Us/Welcome_to_ESA/ESA_and_the_EU NB I don't know if funding decisions are made on a project by project basis. Edit: Also for the European Commissioners are appointed by the elected governments of member states.
- rubber_duck 10y ago
  >Also for the European Commissioners are appointed by the elected governments of member states. Who campaign and are elected on issues totally unrelated to things like this. Basically the public probably doesn't even know it's paying for this until it's reported in the news. At least stuff like this gets debated in the US. For example if I walked around in my office among 20 people (with higher education and into tech) and ask them what ESA is I doubt 5 would know what it stands for and even less that they are paying for it. Everyone knows what NASA is.
  - jkirsteins 10y ago
    > Who campaign and are elected on issues totally unrelated Should politicians refuse to do anything that was not in their campaign leaflets? > For example if I walked around in my office among 20 ... Try it out. In my opinion, this is a very unlikely hypothetical. I'm from a country that is not a member of the ESA - never met a person yet that doesn't know what it is, or stands for. Rosetta in particular caused a lot of excitement, it was on the news a lot, people were following ESA and the lander's accounts on Twitter etc.
    - rubber_duck 10y ago
      >Should politicians refuse to do anything that was not in their campaign leaflets? No - my point is there is no pressure to improve PR because it's not a voting issue for the people deciding it's funding in EU. >In my opinion, this is a very unlikely hypothetical. Just asked 4 next to my desk - only one knew what "ESA" stands for, expected since he's in to that kind of thing - don't feel like disturbing more people :)
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >Should politicians refuse to do anything that was not in their campaign leaflets? It would be great, yes. They could also ask the public anew when such a thing emerges... >In my opinion, this is a very unlikely hypothetical. I'm from a country that is not a member of the ESA - never met a person yet that doesn't know what it is, or stands for. For real? Where did you ask, inside the ESA headquarters? The average EU citizen has absolutely no idea what ESA is or does.
      - merraksh 10y ago
        The average EU citizen has absolutely no idea what ESA is or does. Source? a good percentage of the people I know from Europe does. >Should politicians refuse to do anything that was not in their campaign leaflets? It would be great, yes. They should refuse to do anything that was against (or far from what was in) their program. Leaflets hardly reflect all of a candidate's program.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >so the people making funding decisions are very much directly elected ESA funding is NEVER on the table as a topic of discussion in any kind of public elections of such officials in the EU.
  - arethuza 10y ago
    European space efforts did used to be discussed openly by politicians in the UK - you can imagine how that worked out: "as a waste of money merely 'to put a Frenchman into space.'"
merraksh 10y ago
Funding decisions are made by the EU and by member states [0]. Given the executive and legislative structure of the EU and of its states, budget does involve decisions made by elected people. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency#Member_states.2C_funding_and_budget https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency#Member_s...
- rubber_duck 10y ago
  Decisions in administrative sense maybe, but my point is that it's not a topic that comes up in the election at all - unlike NASA in the US - so there is 0 incentive to sell it to the public.
  - merraksh 10y ago
    Does NASA come up in presidential elections, mid-term elections, or state governor elections? Given that the US is a federation and the EU is a union, I would not expect European elections (which are parliamentary) to mention that, as each country selects its MPs for representation in the EU parliament. Besides, I didn't hear NASA mentioned in the Clinton/Trump debate so far, though I didn't follow it closely.

dingaling 10y ago

Plus most instruments on ESA nmissions are sponsored by their implementing institutions e.g. Universities, not ESA. If no sponsor saw scientific benefit in a camera then no camera goes . They also own the data from their instruments, so ESA is restricted in what material it can release during a mission.

avz 10y ago
> Plus most instruments on ESA nmissions are sponsored by their implementing institutions e.g. Universities, not ESA. This is true. Regrettably. The instruments are often built using public money and the platforms they sit on are almost always launched using public money, but the affiliated universities get to restrict everyone else's access to the data for years. I personally know people working at ESA who were denied the right to publish their work and whose conference talks (in the area of interplanetary navigation) were censored by their managers because it was feared that they would reveal too much information which could conceivably be used by scientists from unaffiliated institutions in their research. Open access is not big in ESA at all. This is a complete opposite of NASA's commitment to keep all data acquired with public money open to the public.

gghh 10y ago

Maybe the public opinion doesn't need pictures to feel proud of this scientific/engineering feat, but I think policy makers (here: ESA mission managers) should consider the inspiring impact images have on people, especially the youngest. When I can show a pic to my nephews and say "look, this is from another planet!" their eyes shine. And some of those excited kids could one day do science themselves, and advance our knowledge. I think it's an investment one should consider making, beyond the mere going there and collect rocks (which, of course, is the essential part).