4 ms·

Watching the events from Europe, the thing about USA and democracy is that it's blatantly obvious how bad things are, all while your media and governments are a

by fredsir 10y ago

Watching the events from Europe, the thing about USA and democracy is that it's blatantly obvious how bad things are, all while your media and governments are acting like everything is great and USA is the greatest country in the world. Nobody acts like things are great in Russia, Nigeria, or Congo. USA is living a lie that hurts almost all its citizens on a daily basis, and there is nothing the people can do. USA might be a democracy but there is no power in the hands of the people anymore. The choice of continuing this corrupt, broken institution is what Hillary represents. Massive change that might break all kinds of stuff world wide because of the crazy that he is, is what Trump represents. I don't think anybody but the people benefitting directly want those two as candidates, but there is nothing anybody can do about it. The people of USA just have to take it, all while being lied to by the very people that should be working for them but obviously aren't: the media and the government. Yeah, worst democracy in the world is probably on point, in my opinion.

tremon 10y ago
As I've said before: US presidential elections are a two-horse race, but both horses are pulling the same carriage.
ebcode 10y ago
>USA might be a democracy but there is no power in the hands of the people anymore. Question: How can we (I live in the US) still be a democracy if there is no power in the hands of the people? I think either the US has slowly become an oligarchy[1], or it has always been an oligarchy that was merely good at pretending to be a democratic republic. I would vote if I thought it would have an effect, but sadly our voting process is inscrutable. I, like many others, pray for a revolution here soon. 1. Edit: just found out Jimmy Carter apparently agrees with this: https://theintercept.com/2015/07/30/jimmy-carter-u-s-oligarchy-unlimited-political-bribery/ https://theintercept.com/2015/07/30/jimmy-carter-u-s-oligarc...
- yarou 10y ago
  The patricians, in their minds, felt the Roman Republic was "democratic", where consuls (and other powerful officials) could only be other patricians, and intermarriage between plebeians and patricians was forbidden. I imagine that's how the various elites of the US feel as well. (Hint: because the system benefits them) Obviously, the plebeians felt otherwise and either started a revolt or simply refused to participate in their corrupted system, until reforms were made. It's the same pattern repeating itself throughout history, when a seemingly benevolent system becomes corrupted by refusing to protect its most vulnerable populace and uphold its rule of law. Don't eschew your civic duty, though. Even if you feel your vote "does not make a difference", you empower those who will one day remove that right from you. You're not using it anyway, right?
  - Taek 10y ago
    They will remove that power regardless of whether I vote. Bernie should have won the Democratic primaries, but the Democratic establishment shut him down. I want real power. My political views are not represented. No single candidate could ever represent me, because my opinions are minorities in many ways. The things I care about are not the issues that the media is pushing. A government that cared about me would find some way for me to be represented. Perhaps a multiparty system like France. Perhaps the ability to directly vote on a small number of issues, instead of being forced into picking a candidate that supports 20% of my ideas over a candidate that supports 8% of them. Or how about a media that'll at least acknowledge severe fraud allegations?: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hDc8PVCvfKs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hDc8PVCvfKs
Amezarak 10y ago
> I don't think anybody but the people benefitting directly want those two as candidates, but there is nothing anybody can do about it. Both Clinton and Trump were nominated as Presidential candidates by the voting public through a democratic process. Voters will choose among Trump, Clinton, Stein, Johnson, and other candidates in the Presidential election on November 8th. If voters don't want to elect Trump or Clinton, they have other candidates they can vote for. The reality is that most people want either Trump or Clinton as President. Can you remind me how Prime Ministers are chosen in your country? What voters choose them to be PM? How important is your national government relative to the national government in the US, domestically speaking? Are state and provincial governments as powerful as they are in the US? Do you elect all your state and local offices, like we do in the US? The US has many problems, but "insufficiently democratic" is not one of them.
- fredsir 10y ago
  Say what you want. Your government and your election is controlled by money and corporations. You are correct that USAs leaders have much more power than the leaders of my country. I will give you that. Your elected officials are probably better power people than mine, but I think that my elected officials are probably much better people than yours. That is not a compliment in favor of your country. Quite the contrary.
  - Amezarak 10y ago
    > Your government and your election is controlled by money and corporations. Do "money" or "corporations" get votes? Or are people persuaded to vote in ways you don't like by people with money? There's a big difference. > You are correct that USAs leaders have much more power than the leaders of my country. That's not what I mean. In domestic terms, the Presidency is a very weak office. In many respects, the President is a figurehead that mostly matters for foreign policy purposes. And again: who decided your PM would be PM? Voters? Or was it an internal decision made by a party without voter input? How can you claim that the US is less democratic than that?
    - 10y ago

by fredsir 10y ago

tremon 10y ago

As I've said before: US presidential elections are a two-horse race, but both horses are pulling the same carriage.

ebcode 10y ago

>USA might be a democracy but there is no power in the hands of the people anymore. Question: How can we (I live in the US) still be a democracy if there is no power in the hands of the people? I think either the US has slowly become an oligarchy[1], or it has always been an oligarchy that was merely good at pretending to be a democratic republic. I would vote if I thought it would have an effect, but sadly our voting process is inscrutable. I, like many others, pray for a revolution here soon. 1. Edit: just found out Jimmy Carter apparently agrees with this: https://theintercept.com/2015/07/30/jimmy-carter-u-s-oligarchy-unlimited-political-bribery/ https://theintercept.com/2015/07/30/jimmy-carter-u-s-oligarc...

yarou 10y ago
The patricians, in their minds, felt the Roman Republic was "democratic", where consuls (and other powerful officials) could only be other patricians, and intermarriage between plebeians and patricians was forbidden. I imagine that's how the various elites of the US feel as well. (Hint: because the system benefits them) Obviously, the plebeians felt otherwise and either started a revolt or simply refused to participate in their corrupted system, until reforms were made. It's the same pattern repeating itself throughout history, when a seemingly benevolent system becomes corrupted by refusing to protect its most vulnerable populace and uphold its rule of law. Don't eschew your civic duty, though. Even if you feel your vote "does not make a difference", you empower those who will one day remove that right from you. You're not using it anyway, right?
- Taek 10y ago
  They will remove that power regardless of whether I vote. Bernie should have won the Democratic primaries, but the Democratic establishment shut him down. I want real power. My political views are not represented. No single candidate could ever represent me, because my opinions are minorities in many ways. The things I care about are not the issues that the media is pushing. A government that cared about me would find some way for me to be represented. Perhaps a multiparty system like France. Perhaps the ability to directly vote on a small number of issues, instead of being forced into picking a candidate that supports 20% of my ideas over a candidate that supports 8% of them. Or how about a media that'll at least acknowledge severe fraud allegations?: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hDc8PVCvfKs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hDc8PVCvfKs

Amezarak 10y ago

> I don't think anybody but the people benefitting directly want those two as candidates, but there is nothing anybody can do about it. Both Clinton and Trump were nominated as Presidential candidates by the voting public through a democratic process. Voters will choose among Trump, Clinton, Stein, Johnson, and other candidates in the Presidential election on November 8th. If voters don't want to elect Trump or Clinton, they have other candidates they can vote for. The reality is that most people want either Trump or Clinton as President. Can you remind me how Prime Ministers are chosen in your country? What voters choose them to be PM? How important is your national government relative to the national government in the US, domestically speaking? Are state and provincial governments as powerful as they are in the US? Do you elect all your state and local offices, like we do in the US? The US has many problems, but "insufficiently democratic" is not one of them.

fredsir 10y ago
Say what you want. Your government and your election is controlled by money and corporations. You are correct that USAs leaders have much more power than the leaders of my country. I will give you that. Your elected officials are probably better power people than mine, but I think that my elected officials are probably much better people than yours. That is not a compliment in favor of your country. Quite the contrary.
- Amezarak 10y ago
  > Your government and your election is controlled by money and corporations. Do "money" or "corporations" get votes? Or are people persuaded to vote in ways you don't like by people with money? There's a big difference. > You are correct that USAs leaders have much more power than the leaders of my country. That's not what I mean. In domestic terms, the Presidency is a very weak office. In many respects, the President is a figurehead that mostly matters for foreign policy purposes. And again: who decided your PM would be PM? Voters? Or was it an internal decision made by a party without voter input? How can you claim that the US is less democratic than that?
  - 10y ago