3 ms·

I can't comment on anti-depressants, but for a similar case (ADHD meds), where societies attitudes regarding meds are similar. ADHD has by far the most success

by rtpg 10y ago

I can't comment on anti-depressants, but for a similar case (ADHD meds), where societies attitudes regarding meds are similar. ADHD has by far the most successful medical treatment of any mental illness. Something like 90% of cases get positive response out of medication, with 35-40% of people having all their symptoms handled. My understanding is that for treatment of clinical depression, medication helps around 75% of cases, but that most people continue to have symptoms even when under medication due to the nature of the illness. In both cases, though, treatment is understood to be a continuous process. You cannot be cured of these illnesses, you can only cope with the side effects. The treatments are like a prosthetic leg: No matter how much you use it, removing it will bring you back to square one. There's a lot of research showing the positive effects of medication (and in ADHD's case, the futility of non-medication-based treatments), but there's still a major fight for acknowledging the validity of this form of treatment. Major parts of the population do not think these illnesses are even real! But it's all pretty dangerous. We have some understanding of how brains work around these illnesses thanks to the research gone into it, but there's a lot of complex interactions going on. Not that physical medicine is much different.

adamweld 10y ago
>There's a lot of research showing the positive effects of medication (and in ADHD's case, the futility of non-medication-based treatments), but there's still a major fight for acknowledging the validity of this form of treatment. Is this really relevant considering the extremely rapid rise in prescription and use of ADHD medication? In my anecdotal experience with friends who take these pills, they very quickly create a reliance on the substance and have significant side effects in the long term. I honestly believe they can be quite harmful to a person's mind. Now, for ADHD there unfortunately aren't good non-medication treatments. But depression is a completely different matter - making lifestyle changes as simple as going for a hike every weekend can easily be as effective or more effective than any medication.
- mickronome 10y ago
  They can be harmful, but diagnosed ADHD/ADD is almost guaranteed to be harmful, maybe especially in todays society. More than doubled risk of depression is only one of the risks of the above diagnoses, and while many of the risks could be said to be more of a societal issue - at least in the beginning - they tend to cause actual health problems over time. Overprescription can always be an issue for any medication, but that's not really an issue with the medication itself is it ?
  - Pigo 10y ago
    Maybe if the medication is 90% as fun as cocaine for large portion of the population. I've known precious few people with legitimately diagnosed ADHD, but I've known tons of people who use the medication as a stimulate for studying or just for fun at parties. No one is doing this with Effexor, at least no one bright. From what I understand it's doesn't effect the people with true ADHD the way it does the casual user. This isn't their fault, and I wouldn't take their crutch away. I fault big pharma and the tons of sketchy doctors out there.
  - khed 10y ago
    I am a physician with training in neuroscience. There is no scientific consensus that stimulants help the problems you are talking about. There is some preliminary evidence that stimulants may make some problems worse (graduation rates).
khed 10y ago
You are over stating the case for what stimulants can do in ADHD. They probably do make kids more docile. They do not improve grades over a meaningful time span. They do not improve broad and important outcomes like graduation rate (there is some evidence that ADHD kids on stimulants have lower graduation rates than ADHD KIDS that aren't medicated), increase earnings, or decrease chance of going to prison.
- JBReefer 10y ago
  Can you cite that? You're opposing mainstream medication usage all over this thread, so it's hard to take each comment as gospel.
  - viewer5 10y ago
    As a sufferer myself, what he's claiming is along the lines of 'stopping blood loss has never been proven to meaningfully affect health'. The difference on and off meds is night and day, between 'brain-scrambled mess' and 'actual thinking human being'
    - khed 10y ago
      I also was diagnosed with ADHD and took Ritalin then Adderall for years. I stopped taking them in medical school and actually got better grades. Regardless of my personal experience or your personal experience the evidence does not show that stimulants increase grades in the medium or long term.
  - khed 10y ago
    SSRIs don't have clinically relevant effects. The following study is a review article. It cites most of the meta analysis the are relevant. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/?report=classic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/?report... I am still trying to find the studies that indicate that stimulants might increase high school drop out. But there is pretty clear consensus that they don't increase grades over the long term. https://www.nber.org/papers/w19105 https://www.nber.org/papers/w19105

by rtpg 10y ago

adamweld 10y ago

>There's a lot of research showing the positive effects of medication (and in ADHD's case, the futility of non-medication-based treatments), but there's still a major fight for acknowledging the validity of this form of treatment. Is this really relevant considering the extremely rapid rise in prescription and use of ADHD medication? In my anecdotal experience with friends who take these pills, they very quickly create a reliance on the substance and have significant side effects in the long term. I honestly believe they can be quite harmful to a person's mind. Now, for ADHD there unfortunately aren't good non-medication treatments. But depression is a completely different matter - making lifestyle changes as simple as going for a hike every weekend can easily be as effective or more effective than any medication.

mickronome 10y ago
They can be harmful, but diagnosed ADHD/ADD is almost guaranteed to be harmful, maybe especially in todays society. More than doubled risk of depression is only one of the risks of the above diagnoses, and while many of the risks could be said to be more of a societal issue - at least in the beginning - they tend to cause actual health problems over time. Overprescription can always be an issue for any medication, but that's not really an issue with the medication itself is it ?
- Pigo 10y ago
  Maybe if the medication is 90% as fun as cocaine for large portion of the population. I've known precious few people with legitimately diagnosed ADHD, but I've known tons of people who use the medication as a stimulate for studying or just for fun at parties. No one is doing this with Effexor, at least no one bright. From what I understand it's doesn't effect the people with true ADHD the way it does the casual user. This isn't their fault, and I wouldn't take their crutch away. I fault big pharma and the tons of sketchy doctors out there.
- khed 10y ago
  I am a physician with training in neuroscience. There is no scientific consensus that stimulants help the problems you are talking about. There is some preliminary evidence that stimulants may make some problems worse (graduation rates).

khed 10y ago

You are over stating the case for what stimulants can do in ADHD. They probably do make kids more docile. They do not improve grades over a meaningful time span. They do not improve broad and important outcomes like graduation rate (there is some evidence that ADHD kids on stimulants have lower graduation rates than ADHD KIDS that aren't medicated), increase earnings, or decrease chance of going to prison.

JBReefer 10y ago
Can you cite that? You're opposing mainstream medication usage all over this thread, so it's hard to take each comment as gospel.
- viewer5 10y ago
  As a sufferer myself, what he's claiming is along the lines of 'stopping blood loss has never been proven to meaningfully affect health'. The difference on and off meds is night and day, between 'brain-scrambled mess' and 'actual thinking human being'
  - khed 10y ago
    I also was diagnosed with ADHD and took Ritalin then Adderall for years. I stopped taking them in medical school and actually got better grades. Regardless of my personal experience or your personal experience the evidence does not show that stimulants increase grades in the medium or long term.
- khed 10y ago
  SSRIs don't have clinically relevant effects. The following study is a review article. It cites most of the meta analysis the are relevant. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/?report=classic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/?report... I am still trying to find the studies that indicate that stimulants might increase high school drop out. But there is pretty clear consensus that they don't increase grades over the long term. https://www.nber.org/papers/w19105 https://www.nber.org/papers/w19105