5 ms·

When did Assad become our enemy?

by drakonandor 10y ago

M_Grey 10y ago
When he started chlorine and barrel bombing civilians?
- throwanem 10y ago
  Our civilians? Perhaps this sounds harsh, but consider the possibility that US intervention in conflicts among and within other sovereign nations may do more harm than good. "Team America: World Police" is a fun movie. It may not be the best of foreign policy goals.
  - the_watcher 10y ago
    Was the parent edited? I don't see the word "our" in it. Just civilians.
    - M_Grey 10y ago
      My post is unedited.
- pdx 10y ago
  > When he started chlorine and barrel bombing civilians? I would suggest to you that the world is more complicated than the soundbites vomited to you by the as of lately, largely discredited media and Obama administration. The accusations against Assad change as necessary. It used to be Sarin, until that was disproved, for example. Bottom line, they just really want Syria to be destroyed like Iraq and Libya were, and will make up accusations as necessary. Did he drop some barrel bombs (home made bombs)? Probably. Did some of them hit civilians? Probably. The US has killed it's share of civilians also, hasn't it? You don't know anything, but you want a nuclear war with Russia. Seems appropriate. https://off-guardian.org/2016/07/25/assad-the-tyrant/ https://off-guardian.org/2016/07/25/assad-the-tyrant/
  - the_watcher 10y ago
    Wait, are you actually defending Assad? EDIT: just want clarify that I don't necessarily disagree that Iraq and Libya were disasters, and that the Syrian situation seems to have devolved into a no good options situation, but that in no way excuses Assad's human rights violations.
    - pdx 10y ago
      Am I defending he used Sarin? Hell yes. That's already disproved. Am I defending he may have killed civilians while bombing rebels? Well, not defending, but putting in perspective, since we kill civilians almost daily. Am I saying that you have been lied to by an administration that destroyed Libya and wants nothing more than to do the same to Syria? Yes, I am.
      - the_watcher 10y ago
        Killed civilians as collateral damage, while tragic, and something that we should work to reduce and minimize, is in no way equivalent to targeting civilians. Following your logic, manslaughter should not be a distinct crime from murder.
        pdx 10y ago
        There's no proof that he targeted civilians. He may have, he may not have. How do you know he did? Who told you so? 1) It's a war. There is a fog of war where accurate information is not always available. 2) It's a common tactic to lie about your enemy to garner more money and weapons from your US sugar daddy. 3) The US government itself has an agenda to topple Syria for it's own reasons and those of it's Sunni ally, Saudi Arabia. Given 1,2, and 3, you are confident that you are in possession of the true state of affairs, even as you conveniently discount that the sarin gas accusation that so infuriated everybody originally, has been proven to be a lie. But hey, let's go to war with Russia based on unproven accusations. I wonder if you're old enough to remember Iraq, and the lies we were told about that? In 2003, we were told a lot of lies to get the population behind the destruction of Iraq. That was 13 years ago, so you were probably in high school or grade school. But it does happen that our government lies to the populous when it wants to destroy a country. https://off-guardian.org/2016/07/25/assad-the-tyrant/ https://off-guardian.org/2016/07/25/assad-the-tyrant/
- snackematician 10y ago
  Killing civilians has absolutely nothing to do with whether a country is an enemy or ally of the USA. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Israel are recent counterexamples to your theory.
dragonwriter 10y ago
The Syrian regime has, in a sense, been recognized by the US as not only a national enemy but as among the common enemies of humanity generally since it's formal designation as a state sponsor of terrorism in 1979.
- pdx 10y ago
  Sorry, but anybody who support Hezbollah is given the moniker "State sponser of terrorism". Iran and Syria support Hezbollah because they are unhappy with Israels expansion. Lots of people are unhappy with Israels expansion. How many UN resolutions have condemned Israel for it's actions? You count them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_con... We are Israels big buddy, so we give scary names to the countries that support Hezbollah. But at the same time, we support rebel groups all over the world. Hell, we're supporting rebel groups in Syria right now. We also supported them in Libya. Don't let the fact that Syria is on a list because of our unhealthy relationship with Israel, make you forget that we belong on that same list ourselves.
  - the_watcher 10y ago
    There are 3 countries on the US list of state sponsors of terrorism. It's not an overly inclusive list.
the_watcher 10y ago
Seriously? Syria is currently one of three countries on the United States list of state sponsors of terrorism.[1] You can quibble with the list, but short of an explicit declaration of war, there's no better (although not necessarily exhaustive) source for a list of current enemies of the US [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Sponsors_of_Terrorism#Syria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Sponsors_of_Terrorism#Sy...

When did Assad become our enemy?

M_Grey 10y ago

When he started chlorine and barrel bombing civilians?

throwanem 10y ago
Our civilians? Perhaps this sounds harsh, but consider the possibility that US intervention in conflicts among and within other sovereign nations may do more harm than good. "Team America: World Police" is a fun movie. It may not be the best of foreign policy goals.
- the_watcher 10y ago
  Was the parent edited? I don't see the word "our" in it. Just civilians.
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    My post is unedited.
pdx 10y ago
> When he started chlorine and barrel bombing civilians? I would suggest to you that the world is more complicated than the soundbites vomited to you by the as of lately, largely discredited media and Obama administration. The accusations against Assad change as necessary. It used to be Sarin, until that was disproved, for example. Bottom line, they just really want Syria to be destroyed like Iraq and Libya were, and will make up accusations as necessary. Did he drop some barrel bombs (home made bombs)? Probably. Did some of them hit civilians? Probably. The US has killed it's share of civilians also, hasn't it? You don't know anything, but you want a nuclear war with Russia. Seems appropriate. https://off-guardian.org/2016/07/25/assad-the-tyrant/ https://off-guardian.org/2016/07/25/assad-the-tyrant/
- the_watcher 10y ago
  Wait, are you actually defending Assad? EDIT: just want clarify that I don't necessarily disagree that Iraq and Libya were disasters, and that the Syrian situation seems to have devolved into a no good options situation, but that in no way excuses Assad's human rights violations.
  - pdx 10y ago
    Am I defending he used Sarin? Hell yes. That's already disproved. Am I defending he may have killed civilians while bombing rebels? Well, not defending, but putting in perspective, since we kill civilians almost daily. Am I saying that you have been lied to by an administration that destroyed Libya and wants nothing more than to do the same to Syria? Yes, I am.
    - the_watcher 10y ago
      Killed civilians as collateral damage, while tragic, and something that we should work to reduce and minimize, is in no way equivalent to targeting civilians. Following your logic, manslaughter should not be a distinct crime from murder.
      - pdx 10y ago
        There's no proof that he targeted civilians. He may have, he may not have. How do you know he did? Who told you so? 1) It's a war. There is a fog of war where accurate information is not always available. 2) It's a common tactic to lie about your enemy to garner more money and weapons from your US sugar daddy. 3) The US government itself has an agenda to topple Syria for it's own reasons and those of it's Sunni ally, Saudi Arabia. Given 1,2, and 3, you are confident that you are in possession of the true state of affairs, even as you conveniently discount that the sarin gas accusation that so infuriated everybody originally, has been proven to be a lie. But hey, let's go to war with Russia based on unproven accusations. I wonder if you're old enough to remember Iraq, and the lies we were told about that? In 2003, we were told a lot of lies to get the population behind the destruction of Iraq. That was 13 years ago, so you were probably in high school or grade school. But it does happen that our government lies to the populous when it wants to destroy a country. https://off-guardian.org/2016/07/25/assad-the-tyrant/ https://off-guardian.org/2016/07/25/assad-the-tyrant/
snackematician 10y ago
Killing civilians has absolutely nothing to do with whether a country is an enemy or ally of the USA. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Israel are recent counterexamples to your theory.

dragonwriter 10y ago

The Syrian regime has, in a sense, been recognized by the US as not only a national enemy but as among the common enemies of humanity generally since it's formal designation as a state sponsor of terrorism in 1979.

pdx 10y ago
Sorry, but anybody who support Hezbollah is given the moniker "State sponser of terrorism". Iran and Syria support Hezbollah because they are unhappy with Israels expansion. Lots of people are unhappy with Israels expansion. How many UN resolutions have condemned Israel for it's actions? You count them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_con... We are Israels big buddy, so we give scary names to the countries that support Hezbollah. But at the same time, we support rebel groups all over the world. Hell, we're supporting rebel groups in Syria right now. We also supported them in Libya. Don't let the fact that Syria is on a list because of our unhealthy relationship with Israel, make you forget that we belong on that same list ourselves.
- the_watcher 10y ago
  There are 3 countries on the US list of state sponsors of terrorism. It's not an overly inclusive list.

the_watcher 10y ago

Seriously? Syria is currently one of three countries on the United States list of state sponsors of terrorism.[1] You can quibble with the list, but short of an explicit declaration of war, there's no better (although not necessarily exhaustive) source for a list of current enemies of the US [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Sponsors_of_Terrorism#Syria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Sponsors_of_Terrorism#Sy...