4 ms·

It kind of depends. I live in Illinois, and I pay about 12 cents per KWH. A huge proportion of the baseload is generated by nuclear power in Illinois, which is

It kind of depends. I live in Illinois, and I pay about 12 cents per KWH. A huge proportion of the baseload is generated by nuclear power in Illinois, which is incredibly inexpensive. Peaking power is provided with fossil fuels, such as natural gas, which is much, much more expensive. It takes a long time to ramp up or down nuclear plants, but the utility is pretty good at matching demand, so electricity remains inexpensive as a whole. The question of whether our power will continue to be inexpensive is brought up often. The nuclear plants are slowly being decommissioned, and there are vocal factions against all of the replacement options. The barriers to constructing a new nuclear plant are substantial, but people are also opposed to the construction of coal plants as well. There is a strong movement for renewable power generation. Illinois is a great area to generate wind energy, but wind is more expensive than nuclear and also requires a greater amount of peaking plants because of the variable nature of the wind, etc. All those extra peaking plants cost a lot of money, even if they sit idle 99% of the time. Illinois is way too flat for hydroelectric, but we have a few pumped hydro storage facilities. They aren't very large, and a few of the pumped hydro facilities are only designed to consume power to use up extra baseload power when the supply is expected to outstrip demand.

caf 10y ago
and a few of the pumped hydro facilities are only designed to consume power to use up extra baseload power when the supply is expected to outstrip demand. That doesn't seem right - if you want to temporarily curb the output of a thermal power station (eg. nuclear or coal) without actually shutting down units, you can just bypass some steam around the turbines.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- 0xffff2 10y ago
  Why do that when you can store the energy cheaply though?
  - caf 10y ago
    I may have misunderstood but I thought the parent was saying that some of the facilities weren't being used for storage but just for power dumping.
    - Declanomous 10y ago
      Our "pumped hydro" is an old quarry that they let fill with water from a nearby river, and then pump the water back out. The pumps exist because the quarry is used for water retention, but they are also used to just waste energy. I don't know the specifics, but I know they do that when electricity prices go negative. I didn't know turbine bypass was a thing though. Why does the utility purchase load if they can bypass the turbines? Do transformers need a certain amount of load on them? The pumped hydro facility in Ludington, MI is kind of close by, but I suspect it might be a little too far away to provide peaking power for Chicago.
- jsight 10y ago
  I think his point is that those Hydro plants become less valuable if the baseload plant (nuclear) were to be phased out.
toomuchtodo 10y ago
> Illinois is a great area to generate wind energy, but wind is more expensive than nuclear and also requires a greater amount of peaking plants because of the variable nature of the wind, etc. While wind power in Illinois does require natural gas to back it (which will eventually be pushed out by more renewables and utility scale battery storage), it is so much cheaper than nuclear its the reason Exelon is closing two nuclear generators in the state earlier than expected (Illinois legislature would not provide them a bailout). The root cause is that there isn't enough utility scale battery storage yet, which should've been incentivized with a higher tax credit than renewable generation. http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130620/NEWS11/130619723/why-exelon-may-cut-its-illinois-nuke-output http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130620/NEWS11/13061... http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20160602/NEWS11/160609978/that-gust-from-springfield-is-sound-of-exelon-ready-to-deal http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20160602/NEWS11/16060... Disclaimer: ComEd customer in Northern Illinois

caf 10y ago

and a few of the pumped hydro facilities are only designed to consume power to use up extra baseload power when the supply is expected to outstrip demand. That doesn't seem right - if you want to temporarily curb the output of a thermal power station (eg. nuclear or coal) without actually shutting down units, you can just bypass some steam around the turbines.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
0xffff2 10y ago
Why do that when you can store the energy cheaply though?
- caf 10y ago
  I may have misunderstood but I thought the parent was saying that some of the facilities weren't being used for storage but just for power dumping.
  - Declanomous 10y ago
    Our "pumped hydro" is an old quarry that they let fill with water from a nearby river, and then pump the water back out. The pumps exist because the quarry is used for water retention, but they are also used to just waste energy. I don't know the specifics, but I know they do that when electricity prices go negative. I didn't know turbine bypass was a thing though. Why does the utility purchase load if they can bypass the turbines? Do transformers need a certain amount of load on them? The pumped hydro facility in Ludington, MI is kind of close by, but I suspect it might be a little too far away to provide peaking power for Chicago.
jsight 10y ago
I think his point is that those Hydro plants become less valuable if the baseload plant (nuclear) were to be phased out.

toomuchtodo 10y ago

> Illinois is a great area to generate wind energy, but wind is more expensive than nuclear and also requires a greater amount of peaking plants because of the variable nature of the wind, etc. While wind power in Illinois does require natural gas to back it (which will eventually be pushed out by more renewables and utility scale battery storage), it is so much cheaper than nuclear its the reason Exelon is closing two nuclear generators in the state earlier than expected (Illinois legislature would not provide them a bailout). The root cause is that there isn't enough utility scale battery storage yet, which should've been incentivized with a higher tax credit than renewable generation. http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130620/NEWS11/130619723/why-exelon-may-cut-its-illinois-nuke-output http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130620/NEWS11/13061... http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20160602/NEWS11/160609978/that-gust-from-springfield-is-sound-of-exelon-ready-to-deal http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20160602/NEWS11/16060... Disclaimer: ComEd customer in Northern Illinois