3 ms·

So is owning a house outright instead of paying a mortgage every month. But you gotta cough up the cash up-front. Clearly not everyone can swing that.

deelowe 10y ago
Pedantic: That's actually not true if you consider the time value of money and current prime mortgage rates.
- msandford 10y ago
  That's absolutely fair, but a Tesla is $80k and the note payment on $80k is at least $1k/mo. A reasonable note payment on a gasoline car is $300/mo and you can buy _a lot_ of gasoline or diesel for $700/mo, before you put a single electron into your Tesla. Sure there are ostensibly other EVs out there. But it's basically a fun car to drive (Tesla) or a total bummer (Leaf or Volt). I've got something in between (turbo 4cyl) for half the cost of a Tesla per month, fuel included. Perhaps once the Tesla is paid off it gets super cheap to drive, but about that time you'll need a new battery pack I'd suspect. So in a way a Tesla is a $60k car with a $20k prepaid fuel card. It's cool, don't get me wrong. But unless you're willing to bury your head in the economic sand in a pretty serious way, it's not somehow more affordable than a car based on a traditional ICE.
vvanders 10y ago
Sure but costs are rapidly dropping for EVs while house prices continue to climb. I think we're going to see some really interesting things over the next 5-7 years as initial prices come down and operating costs stay low. It's going to squeeze the ICE market from both ends which could put them in a really tough position. I'm reminded of the HDTV market about ~10 years ago when it seems that prices were astronomical. Now you can get a 4k TV for under $300.
- sn0v 10y ago
  Out of curiosity, what 4k TV model is this? (under 300)
  - greendragon 10y ago
    Seiki 4ks have been sub 300 for a while, at least when they're on sale. (e.g. I've been using https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RBA9MOC/ref=psdc_6459737011_t3_B00BXF7I9M https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RBA9MOC/ref=psdc_6459737011_t3_... for over a year as a monitor after applying a beta firmware patch to get rid of the terrible latency. I got it for $298.)
  - pixl97 10y ago
    Walmart does carry a few of them https://www.walmart.com/browse/electronics/4k-ultra-hdtvs/3944_1060825_1180168 https://www.walmart.com/browse/electronics/4k-ultra-hdtvs/39... Not saying you should buy from them though.
- msandford 10y ago
  > I'm reminded of the HDTV market about ~10 years ago when it seems that prices were astronomical. Now you can get a 4k TV for under $300. I'll bite. Cars aren't 90% electronics, but TVs are. If you bought a BMW with everything but the drivetrain, it'd still cost a whole pile of money. Same with a Tesla. Sure the drivetrain might cost 20%-30% of the car's retail price, but even if you bring that to $0 you absolutely haven't made the car 90% cheaper for 5x the product. Just because electronics have a _huge_ NRE (non-recurring engineering) cost and fairly trivial per-unit costs (like software) doesn't mean that the whole world works that way. Metal still costs real money because it takes energy to make/recycle, form, etc.

deelowe 10y ago

Pedantic: That's actually not true if you consider the time value of money and current prime mortgage rates.

msandford 10y ago
That's absolutely fair, but a Tesla is $80k and the note payment on $80k is at least $1k/mo. A reasonable note payment on a gasoline car is $300/mo and you can buy _a lot_ of gasoline or diesel for $700/mo, before you put a single electron into your Tesla. Sure there are ostensibly other EVs out there. But it's basically a fun car to drive (Tesla) or a total bummer (Leaf or Volt). I've got something in between (turbo 4cyl) for half the cost of a Tesla per month, fuel included. Perhaps once the Tesla is paid off it gets super cheap to drive, but about that time you'll need a new battery pack I'd suspect. So in a way a Tesla is a $60k car with a $20k prepaid fuel card. It's cool, don't get me wrong. But unless you're willing to bury your head in the economic sand in a pretty serious way, it's not somehow more affordable than a car based on a traditional ICE.

vvanders 10y ago

Sure but costs are rapidly dropping for EVs while house prices continue to climb. I think we're going to see some really interesting things over the next 5-7 years as initial prices come down and operating costs stay low. It's going to squeeze the ICE market from both ends which could put them in a really tough position. I'm reminded of the HDTV market about ~10 years ago when it seems that prices were astronomical. Now you can get a 4k TV for under $300.

sn0v 10y ago
Out of curiosity, what 4k TV model is this? (under 300)
- greendragon 10y ago
  Seiki 4ks have been sub 300 for a while, at least when they're on sale. (e.g. I've been using https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RBA9MOC/ref=psdc_6459737011_t3_B00BXF7I9M https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RBA9MOC/ref=psdc_6459737011_t3_... for over a year as a monitor after applying a beta firmware patch to get rid of the terrible latency. I got it for $298.)
- pixl97 10y ago
  Walmart does carry a few of them https://www.walmart.com/browse/electronics/4k-ultra-hdtvs/3944_1060825_1180168 https://www.walmart.com/browse/electronics/4k-ultra-hdtvs/39... Not saying you should buy from them though.
msandford 10y ago
> I'm reminded of the HDTV market about ~10 years ago when it seems that prices were astronomical. Now you can get a 4k TV for under $300. I'll bite. Cars aren't 90% electronics, but TVs are. If you bought a BMW with everything but the drivetrain, it'd still cost a whole pile of money. Same with a Tesla. Sure the drivetrain might cost 20%-30% of the car's retail price, but even if you bring that to $0 you absolutely haven't made the car 90% cheaper for 5x the product. Just because electronics have a _huge_ NRE (non-recurring engineering) cost and fairly trivial per-unit costs (like software) doesn't mean that the whole world works that way. Metal still costs real money because it takes energy to make/recycle, form, etc.