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Political freedom. The right to be an idiot in public, perhaps. A free press. Seems strange, but it seems that this is important. The USA 's terrible foreig

Political freedom. The right to be an idiot in public, perhaps. A free press. Seems strange, but it seems that this is important. The USA 's terrible foreign policy is not the point here. Instead, contrast China with other democracies: Germany, Sweden, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Iceland etc instead in comparison perhaps

dragonbonheur 10y ago
China's government has to be authoritarian because of its history of being invaded by Western powers and because the Communist party knows very well that their country is very vulnerable to Western ambitions of conquest. That is why Tibet will and should remain part of China. And they still manage to jail less people than the USA and that IS the point here. And would you say that the US press is really free? They drum up war against one country or another when the US government orders it. They avoid covering third party candidates when the Republicans and Democrats order them to. They write cheap hit pieces (21 articles against Bernie Sanders in a single day in Washington Post) when people in power order it. Not really much freedom here either... And why don't you start comparing the USA with other democracies like Michael Moore did? The USA would still suck in comparison.
- triplesec 10y ago
  OK, so the problems with your argument are at least 6-fold: 1. You're still committing a Red Herring fallacy by not addressing the obvious details of Chinese political repression, rather instead just claiming they are necessary 2. You are also diverting by Red Herring by claiming that America is worse or just as bad. Yes, the USA does many things badly, and worse thaan many other Western Democracies. This does not make China any better. Or indeed better than the US. There are many ways in which important principles of open society and government are much better in the US than in China. It is astonishing that this needs to be spelled out, unless you are Chinese and have an emotional bond to its system. 3. China is not in danger of invasion by Western powers. I really think you must be a member of the Chinese Communist party to believe such things. This paranoia is shared by Putin's elite in Moscow. The US might like oil and strategic power, but it's not about to invade huge countries on any whim. This is Cold War illogic and hugely irrational 4. The US press is much freer than most in the world. CErtainly more than China's. IT's not perfectly free, but the 1st Amendment makes it so much more powerful in principle than in the UK, Germany, France, and many other relatively free western democracies, and certainly than almowt all otehrs in the world. In practice, money rules, and it's hard to get balanced voices against the neocons, but NPR would really not happen in China 5. the Great Firewall of China. 6. Repression of Tibetan ethnic identity, and no there is no strategic reason for including Tibet in the Chinese empire. That's all about expansionism Tibet is a barren, mountainous poor country, and being culturally homogenised into Chinese Han culture by deliberate immigration policies such as the ones Stalin used to Russify the Soviet states. 7. China jails people for speaking freely. Political prisoners. It's even abducting booksellers and publishers from Hong Kong. The Hong Kongese are very upset about this and do't want to lose their freedom (and better quality of life) by being subsumed entirely into the Chinese patronage system.

dragonbonheur 10y ago

China's government has to be authoritarian because of its history of being invaded by Western powers and because the Communist party knows very well that their country is very vulnerable to Western ambitions of conquest. That is why Tibet will and should remain part of China. And they still manage to jail less people than the USA and that IS the point here. And would you say that the US press is really free? They drum up war against one country or another when the US government orders it. They avoid covering third party candidates when the Republicans and Democrats order them to. They write cheap hit pieces (21 articles against Bernie Sanders in a single day in Washington Post) when people in power order it. Not really much freedom here either... And why don't you start comparing the USA with other democracies like Michael Moore did? The USA would still suck in comparison.

triplesec 10y ago
OK, so the problems with your argument are at least 6-fold: 1. You're still committing a Red Herring fallacy by not addressing the obvious details of Chinese political repression, rather instead just claiming they are necessary 2. You are also diverting by Red Herring by claiming that America is worse or just as bad. Yes, the USA does many things badly, and worse thaan many other Western Democracies. This does not make China any better. Or indeed better than the US. There are many ways in which important principles of open society and government are much better in the US than in China. It is astonishing that this needs to be spelled out, unless you are Chinese and have an emotional bond to its system. 3. China is not in danger of invasion by Western powers. I really think you must be a member of the Chinese Communist party to believe such things. This paranoia is shared by Putin's elite in Moscow. The US might like oil and strategic power, but it's not about to invade huge countries on any whim. This is Cold War illogic and hugely irrational 4. The US press is much freer than most in the world. CErtainly more than China's. IT's not perfectly free, but the 1st Amendment makes it so much more powerful in principle than in the UK, Germany, France, and many other relatively free western democracies, and certainly than almowt all otehrs in the world. In practice, money rules, and it's hard to get balanced voices against the neocons, but NPR would really not happen in China 5. the Great Firewall of China. 6. Repression of Tibetan ethnic identity, and no there is no strategic reason for including Tibet in the Chinese empire. That's all about expansionism Tibet is a barren, mountainous poor country, and being culturally homogenised into Chinese Han culture by deliberate immigration policies such as the ones Stalin used to Russify the Soviet states. 7. China jails people for speaking freely. Political prisoners. It's even abducting booksellers and publishers from Hong Kong. The Hong Kongese are very upset about this and do't want to lose their freedom (and better quality of life) by being subsumed entirely into the Chinese patronage system.