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I'm not so sure that HTML5 adoption, at the cost of all web plugins, is a net win. I don't care so much about Flash, but it seems that Apple's lack of a plugin

I'm not so sure that HTML5 adoption, at the cost of all web plugins, is a net win. I don't care so much about Flash, but it seems that Apple's lack of a plugin framework is positioning Safari to be the next IE6. Developers will be limited by the lowest common denominator. Without plugin-based workarounds, Safari's support for any new technology will dictate what web developers use. Don't like that Apple has chosen H.264 over VP8 or Theora? tough luck... clarification: referring to Mobile Safari's lack of plugins

edd 17y ago
edit: after clarification by OP this doesn't relate to what they are talking about. I don't know quite what you are getting at here? Are you suggesting that you can't install plugins to manage different kind of embeds with Safari? As this is just not true: Java, Flash, RealPlayer, QuickTime, Flip4Mac.... these are all plugins built as standard OSX internet plugins. If you want to develop your own go ahead. I think what you are trying to get at is that you want things that are being natively handled by the browser to be optionally controlled via a plugin. The fragmented state that is what browsers have natively implemented is quite shocking but having everything optionally overridden by plugins would cause even more fragmentation and even more headaches.
- stuntmouse 17y ago
  I assumed that point was about the lack of support for plugins in Mobile Safari, though I could be mistaken.
blasdel 17y ago
You really could not be more wrong. WebKit on OS X has a native Obj-C plugin system: http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/InternetWeb/Conceptual/WebKit_PluginProgTopic/Tasks/WebKitPlugins.html http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Interne... If you want to add VP8 or Theora support in <video> to WebKit apps on OS X, just install a QuickTime decoder for them: http://xiph.org/quicktime/ http://xiph.org/quicktime/ — Want to add any codecs to Firefox? You're completely fucked, and have to fork the whole stack.
GHFigs 17y ago
Developers will be limited by the lowest common denominator. This is always true, but it also is always qualified by "of the audience they intend to reach". If you're trying to reach "everyone", then your lowest common denominator is still going to be some version if Internet Explorer for some time to come--even IE9 won't support some major parts of HTML5. Beyond that, you're implicitly excluding some set of potential users -- it's only a question of which. Targeting a plugin (or bleeding-edge standards) never gets you a bigger audience than standard web technologies, just a different audience. (Flash is really the only historical example of a plugin becoming so ubiquitous that you could safely assume that you weren't excluding many by depending on it, but that is obviously changing back to the more typical state.) What this should mean, I think, is that the bar for developing on plugin platforms is raised. The smaller the installed base, the more valuable the experience you have to deliver for it to be worth your while, and the user's. I think this is as it should be. The only developers who will choose to limit themselves so will be the ones that weren't really doing anything that necessitated the plugin in the first place. Don't like that Apple has chosen H.264 over VP8 or Theora? If you don't like that, you probably aren't using Mobile Safari in the first place.

edd 17y ago

edit: after clarification by OP this doesn't relate to what they are talking about. I don't know quite what you are getting at here? Are you suggesting that you can't install plugins to manage different kind of embeds with Safari? As this is just not true: Java, Flash, RealPlayer, QuickTime, Flip4Mac.... these are all plugins built as standard OSX internet plugins. If you want to develop your own go ahead. I think what you are trying to get at is that you want things that are being natively handled by the browser to be optionally controlled via a plugin. The fragmented state that is what browsers have natively implemented is quite shocking but having everything optionally overridden by plugins would cause even more fragmentation and even more headaches.

stuntmouse 17y ago
I assumed that point was about the lack of support for plugins in Mobile Safari, though I could be mistaken.

blasdel 17y ago

You really could not be more wrong. WebKit on OS X has a native Obj-C plugin system: http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/InternetWeb/Conceptual/WebKit_PluginProgTopic/Tasks/WebKitPlugins.html http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Interne... If you want to add VP8 or Theora support in <video> to WebKit apps on OS X, just install a QuickTime decoder for them: http://xiph.org/quicktime/ http://xiph.org/quicktime/ — Want to add any codecs to Firefox? You're completely fucked, and have to fork the whole stack.

GHFigs 17y ago

Developers will be limited by the lowest common denominator. This is always true, but it also is always qualified by "of the audience they intend to reach". If you're trying to reach "everyone", then your lowest common denominator is still going to be some version if Internet Explorer for some time to come--even IE9 won't support some major parts of HTML5. Beyond that, you're implicitly excluding some set of potential users -- it's only a question of which. Targeting a plugin (or bleeding-edge standards) never gets you a bigger audience than standard web technologies, just a different audience. (Flash is really the only historical example of a plugin becoming so ubiquitous that you could safely assume that you weren't excluding many by depending on it, but that is obviously changing back to the more typical state.) What this should mean, I think, is that the bar for developing on plugin platforms is raised. The smaller the installed base, the more valuable the experience you have to deliver for it to be worth your while, and the user's. I think this is as it should be. The only developers who will choose to limit themselves so will be the ones that weren't really doing anything that necessitated the plugin in the first place. Don't like that Apple has chosen H.264 over VP8 or Theora? If you don't like that, you probably aren't using Mobile Safari in the first place.