4 ms·

> (e.g. Federal government jobs and some companies) but these are frequently viewed as undesirable Federal and government (city, state etc.) jobs (perhaps excl

by RandomName2020 10y ago

> (e.g. Federal government jobs and some companies) but these are frequently viewed as undesirable Federal and government (city, state etc.) jobs (perhaps excluding IT) are some of the most desirable jobs in US, with long waiting lines. Got try get a city job in NYC....

TDL 10y ago
Are you going to back up any of your claims?
- RandomName2020 10y ago
  Back up claims? It is common knowledge - bus drivers for example, working for Santa Clara county transit make $35/h, bus drivers for (contracted) Google and such make less than $20.
  - TDL 10y ago
    That's not common knowledge to me, especially since I don't live in California. You have asserted certain claims and offer no evidence. "Common knowledge" isn't evidence.
    - RandomName2020 10y ago
      I do not know how to even reply to that. Bus drivers, post delivery people, municipal construction workers etc. - all have better salaries and benefits than similar private workers. I am not sure how any adult living anywhere in US could manage to not know that.
      - thedufer 10y ago
        You're talking past one another, I think. You are correct for most blue collar jobs; GP's description is accurate for most white collar workers. Your downvotes are probably for your unnecessarily inflammatory final sentence.
    - antisthenes 10y ago
      > "Common knowledge" isn't evidence. But it is. The data for public salaries generally has very good availability in the Information age. If you're trying to participate in a discussion in an informed way, you should at least conduct the minimum due diligence to do so.
      - cloverich 10y ago
        Common knowledge is by definition not evidence. > The data for public salaries generally has very good availability in the Information age. The salaries don't seem particularly high, and in some cases (construction workers and bus drivers, top quarter) seem particularly low. Of course a lot more goes into job satisfaction than Salary but I agree, this is not common knowledge. http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/construction-worker/salary http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/construction-worke... http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/bus-driver/salary http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/bus-driver/salary
        RandomName2020 10y ago
        The point that BUS DRIVERS working for GOVERNMENT make better wages than BUS DRIVER working for PRIVATE sector. Not that bus drivers in general are rich people.
        cloverich 10y ago
        Ah. I think you've misread the comment in that case. The argument wasn't that the same job was typically better in private than government sector. It was that the types of jobs typically available in government (like the ones you mentioned) are viewed as less desirable in general, despite having good benefits, shorter hours, etc.
        RandomName2020 10y ago
        For white collars yes, for blue collars - definitely no.
jandrewrogers 10y ago
Yes, they are highly desirable to people that are non-ambitious and strongly risk averse, which includes a non-trivial percentage of the population. For a certain kind of person, those jobs are perfect; the pay and opportunity isn't great but the risk and level of effort is also low. I've worked in these organizations before; the people that take these jobs don't want much out of life, just looking to coast. But most Americans find government jobs to be unfulfilling and stifling for exactly the same reason -- it is a dead-end. I know it is different in other countries but "government job" has mixed connotations in the US.
- untog 10y ago
  > the people that take these jobs don't want much out of life I disagree - those people don't want much out of work, they still want plenty out of life. Most I've met have tremendously fulfilling family lives, or similar. Not to be discounted.
- RandomName2020 10y ago
  NASA and Fermilab are also government jobs.
- antisthenes 10y ago
  No offense, but everything you wrote makes you sound like a condescending asshole that bases their views on people on a short stint at some gov. agency. How do you know what those people were doing in their lives? Were their performing their job adequately? If yes, I don't really see the issue. Many of the federal jobs are just as demanding and rewarding as those in the private sector and they are so highly desired, that the hiring process has to be very selective, so it leads to at least some quality in the candidates. > But most Americans find government jobs to be unfulfilling and stifling for exactly the same reason -- it is a dead-end. Perhaps you should stop extrapolating your preconceived (and incorrect) notions to most Americans and instead consider the alternative.

TDL 10y ago

Are you going to back up any of your claims?

RandomName2020 10y ago
Back up claims? It is common knowledge - bus drivers for example, working for Santa Clara county transit make $35/h, bus drivers for (contracted) Google and such make less than $20.
- TDL 10y ago
  That's not common knowledge to me, especially since I don't live in California. You have asserted certain claims and offer no evidence. "Common knowledge" isn't evidence.
  - RandomName2020 10y ago
    I do not know how to even reply to that. Bus drivers, post delivery people, municipal construction workers etc. - all have better salaries and benefits than similar private workers. I am not sure how any adult living anywhere in US could manage to not know that.
    - thedufer 10y ago
      You're talking past one another, I think. You are correct for most blue collar jobs; GP's description is accurate for most white collar workers. Your downvotes are probably for your unnecessarily inflammatory final sentence.
  - antisthenes 10y ago
    > "Common knowledge" isn't evidence. But it is. The data for public salaries generally has very good availability in the Information age. If you're trying to participate in a discussion in an informed way, you should at least conduct the minimum due diligence to do so.
    - cloverich 10y ago
      Common knowledge is by definition not evidence. > The data for public salaries generally has very good availability in the Information age. The salaries don't seem particularly high, and in some cases (construction workers and bus drivers, top quarter) seem particularly low. Of course a lot more goes into job satisfaction than Salary but I agree, this is not common knowledge. http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/construction-worker/salary http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/construction-worke... http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/bus-driver/salary http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/bus-driver/salary
      - RandomName2020 10y ago
        The point that BUS DRIVERS working for GOVERNMENT make better wages than BUS DRIVER working for PRIVATE sector. Not that bus drivers in general are rich people.
        cloverich 10y ago
        Ah. I think you've misread the comment in that case. The argument wasn't that the same job was typically better in private than government sector. It was that the types of jobs typically available in government (like the ones you mentioned) are viewed as less desirable in general, despite having good benefits, shorter hours, etc.
        RandomName2020 10y ago
        For white collars yes, for blue collars - definitely no.

jandrewrogers 10y ago

Yes, they are highly desirable to people that are non-ambitious and strongly risk averse, which includes a non-trivial percentage of the population. For a certain kind of person, those jobs are perfect; the pay and opportunity isn't great but the risk and level of effort is also low. I've worked in these organizations before; the people that take these jobs don't want much out of life, just looking to coast. But most Americans find government jobs to be unfulfilling and stifling for exactly the same reason -- it is a dead-end. I know it is different in other countries but "government job" has mixed connotations in the US.

untog 10y ago
> the people that take these jobs don't want much out of life I disagree - those people don't want much out of work, they still want plenty out of life. Most I've met have tremendously fulfilling family lives, or similar. Not to be discounted.
RandomName2020 10y ago
NASA and Fermilab are also government jobs.
antisthenes 10y ago
No offense, but everything you wrote makes you sound like a condescending asshole that bases their views on people on a short stint at some gov. agency. How do you know what those people were doing in their lives? Were their performing their job adequately? If yes, I don't really see the issue. Many of the federal jobs are just as demanding and rewarding as those in the private sector and they are so highly desired, that the hiring process has to be very selective, so it leads to at least some quality in the candidates. > But most Americans find government jobs to be unfulfilling and stifling for exactly the same reason -- it is a dead-end. Perhaps you should stop extrapolating your preconceived (and incorrect) notions to most Americans and instead consider the alternative.