9 ms·

some of us love work.

by lintiness 10y ago

awjr 10y ago
As long as you are working on your own stuff, that's usually fine.
mtberatwork 10y ago
I'm sure many Europeans love their work too.
tirant 10y ago
And you can still do that in Europe, no one is stopping you from working more. And even better, as you have more free time, you can use it for your own projects.
- creshal 10y ago
  > And you can still do that in Europe, no one is stopping you from working more. Well, unions do. But that's a good thing, it prevents a race to burnout.
  - ajmurmann 10y ago
    Does that actually apply to every field? I've only worked briefly as a software developer in Germany and not full time, but I never got the impression that unions would realistically stop anyone in that field from working till midnight. If you are working as a factory worker for example that's of course a totally different story. However, I doubt that people in that kind of job regularly decide to put in a few extra hours on some days and are usually on the clock.
    - creshal 10y ago
      The overtime regulations vary from union to union, but generally there's an upper limit – you can work 50 hours a week (and get compensated in some form), but not 90.
    - matt4077 10y ago
      If you're in management (defined as having authority to hire/fire IIRC) you're exempt from the law, same if you're self-employed. For a regular programming job, I believe the the law applies (no more than 10h/day and (8h/weekday average over 6 months). Practically, it only matters if somebody cares about it which only happens systematically on larger companies with a union presence. But: you're responsible for your employees and they can not waive this right. If you regularly tolerate it, you may run the risk of someone changing his mind after a few years and getting you into trouble, trouble being up to 15000 Euro in penalties and (theoretically) a year in prison if someone was harmed.
      - joncrocks 10y ago
        In the UK you can opt-out of the EU working time directive.
    - Symbiote 10y ago
      It's the EU Working Time directive. You can work longer for yourself, but not for someone else. http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=706&langId=en&intPageId=205 http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=706&langId=en&intP...
      - wott 10y ago
        But is not applied for everyone. In my country, it doesn't apply to engineers typically: the only limit is 13h/day, 6days/week, so that's a "limit" of 78h/week...
    - dragandj 10y ago
      In most developed EU countries, especially the happy Denmark, mr. Taxman will make sure that you see little marginal benefit of those longer hours.
      - exBarrelSpoiler 10y ago
        Well, for those who love work so much, they'd do so regardless of the extra monetary benefits, would they not?
  - _of 10y ago
    You can have two jobs if you want to. They won't stop you from that.
- aianus 10y ago
  Nobody is stopping you but why would you work 60 hours a week for some boring European company that only pays you EUR60k when you can work the same hours in SV on something interesting and make $150k+.
  - drcross 10y ago
    Because a house costs you 200k instead of 400k
    - aianus 10y ago
      So move back to Europe after five years in SV and buy the house in cash.
    - dragandj 10y ago
      Not in London, or Paris, or any of those places where there is some interesting work.
  - rifung 10y ago
    Are you implying all European companies are boring? That seems like a strange assumption..
7Z7 10y ago
In fairness, that's a pretty privileged opinion to hold.
untog 10y ago
What % of the population do you think that applies to? I'm very glad for you that you love your work enough to dedicate all the time you have available to it, but there a hell of a lot of people out there in the US who have to, and neglect their families, mental and physical health just to get by.
vanpet 10y ago
I think you're confusing loving to work and loving to be at work.
flatline 10y ago
When I was in my late 20s and early 30s I worked all the time - I loved it! At some point though I became disillusioned with work. There was always more of it, and it was primarily for someone else's benefit. If you're working for yourself I can see a stronger case for putting in those hours, but you still risk seeing those years go by in a haze of largely undifferentiated time sitting behind the keyboard, or what have you, with likely little reward at the end. It's possible to have a work-life balance, still enjoy your job and be productive, take vacation, etc. Work can become a soulless endeavor, just as pursuing wealth for its own sake.
- lintiness 10y ago
  nice reply, a lot better than the dictation that europe and vacation are the real way to live. i work for myself. i generally get to my office around 5am, leave at 230pm, spend around 4 hours every weekday with my wife and kids. i ski mid-week in the winter when there's fresh powder. i'll log research hours on the weekend. i have health insurance, savings, and happiness. i like my work and consider my hours logged a little light, but closer to adequate than 26 or 22 or whatever that bloomberg article says (50 - 60 a wk).

some of us love work.

awjr 10y ago

As long as you are working on your own stuff, that's usually fine.

mtberatwork 10y ago

I'm sure many Europeans love their work too.

tirant 10y ago

And you can still do that in Europe, no one is stopping you from working more. And even better, as you have more free time, you can use it for your own projects.

creshal 10y ago
> And you can still do that in Europe, no one is stopping you from working more. Well, unions do. But that's a good thing, it prevents a race to burnout.
- ajmurmann 10y ago
  Does that actually apply to every field? I've only worked briefly as a software developer in Germany and not full time, but I never got the impression that unions would realistically stop anyone in that field from working till midnight. If you are working as a factory worker for example that's of course a totally different story. However, I doubt that people in that kind of job regularly decide to put in a few extra hours on some days and are usually on the clock.
  - creshal 10y ago
    The overtime regulations vary from union to union, but generally there's an upper limit – you can work 50 hours a week (and get compensated in some form), but not 90.
  - matt4077 10y ago
    If you're in management (defined as having authority to hire/fire IIRC) you're exempt from the law, same if you're self-employed. For a regular programming job, I believe the the law applies (no more than 10h/day and (8h/weekday average over 6 months). Practically, it only matters if somebody cares about it which only happens systematically on larger companies with a union presence. But: you're responsible for your employees and they can not waive this right. If you regularly tolerate it, you may run the risk of someone changing his mind after a few years and getting you into trouble, trouble being up to 15000 Euro in penalties and (theoretically) a year in prison if someone was harmed.
    - joncrocks 10y ago
      In the UK you can opt-out of the EU working time directive.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    It's the EU Working Time directive. You can work longer for yourself, but not for someone else. http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=706&langId=en&intPageId=205 http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=706&langId=en&intP...
    - wott 10y ago
      But is not applied for everyone. In my country, it doesn't apply to engineers typically: the only limit is 13h/day, 6days/week, so that's a "limit" of 78h/week...
  - dragandj 10y ago
    In most developed EU countries, especially the happy Denmark, mr. Taxman will make sure that you see little marginal benefit of those longer hours.
    - exBarrelSpoiler 10y ago
      Well, for those who love work so much, they'd do so regardless of the extra monetary benefits, would they not?
- _of 10y ago
  You can have two jobs if you want to. They won't stop you from that.
aianus 10y ago
Nobody is stopping you but why would you work 60 hours a week for some boring European company that only pays you EUR60k when you can work the same hours in SV on something interesting and make $150k+.
- drcross 10y ago
  Because a house costs you 200k instead of 400k
  - aianus 10y ago
    So move back to Europe after five years in SV and buy the house in cash.
  - dragandj 10y ago
    Not in London, or Paris, or any of those places where there is some interesting work.
- rifung 10y ago
  Are you implying all European companies are boring? That seems like a strange assumption..

7Z7 10y ago

In fairness, that's a pretty privileged opinion to hold.

untog 10y ago

What % of the population do you think that applies to? I'm very glad for you that you love your work enough to dedicate all the time you have available to it, but there a hell of a lot of people out there in the US who have to, and neglect their families, mental and physical health just to get by.

vanpet 10y ago

I think you're confusing loving to work and loving to be at work.

flatline 10y ago

When I was in my late 20s and early 30s I worked all the time - I loved it! At some point though I became disillusioned with work. There was always more of it, and it was primarily for someone else's benefit. If you're working for yourself I can see a stronger case for putting in those hours, but you still risk seeing those years go by in a haze of largely undifferentiated time sitting behind the keyboard, or what have you, with likely little reward at the end. It's possible to have a work-life balance, still enjoy your job and be productive, take vacation, etc. Work can become a soulless endeavor, just as pursuing wealth for its own sake.

lintiness 10y ago
nice reply, a lot better than the dictation that europe and vacation are the real way to live. i work for myself. i generally get to my office around 5am, leave at 230pm, spend around 4 hours every weekday with my wife and kids. i ski mid-week in the winter when there's fresh powder. i'll log research hours on the weekend. i have health insurance, savings, and happiness. i like my work and consider my hours logged a little light, but closer to adequate than 26 or 22 or whatever that bloomberg article says (50 - 60 a wk).