6 ms·

In most cases is not like they (the Americans) have a choice to work less hours. Vacation time in North America is significantly under the European norm.

creshal 10y ago
We have more (paid) vacation and more public holidays and sick leave is both paid for and not counted towards the vacation budget, and more maternity/paternity leave, and some countries have extra leave for things like family funerals. It's not hard to "work less" like that.
- wil421 10y ago
  I have all this things in the US. Sick leave is not counted in my vacation. Maternity leave is much longer than paternity. And is paid for in full at my company for a time. FMLA allows 12 weeks total but it can be unpaid. The main difference I've seen with the Europeans I work with is, they take big chunks off at a time in summer. They pay more taxes but have more time off. Most likely don't get full pay for Maternity/paternity leave.
  - roebk 10y ago
    It's great that you have all things things, but are they standard in the US? I think that's the main issue here, that as a baseline, europeans tend to get more time off.
  - snovv_crash 10y ago
    I haven't seen any US companies offering 25 days of paid vacation a year, plus unlimited sick leave (doctors note required for more than 3 consecutive days), plus extra days off for personal emergencies eg children sick, death in family. All the money in SV could never make me go there if I never have time to spend it.
    - wil421 10y ago
      A quick google search and I can't find many places in Europe that offer 25 days, not including the national holidays. If I include national holidays I get 22 days off. No set sick days unless you're out for more than 5 consecutive days. I'm not sure why you'd move to SV, startup life's seems like hell.
      - snovv_crash 10y ago
        From Wikipedia[1], minimum annual days leave are: UK: 28 Austria, Denmark, Finland, France, Luxembourg, Norway, Sweden: 25 Iceland, Malta: 24 Portugal, Spain: 22 The EU mandates a minimum of 20 days, so all other EU member states have 20. Of course, these are just the mandated minimums. Many employers will give more to be competitive. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b...
        Accacin 10y ago
        8 of those in the UK are Bank Holidays. I'm not sure about others countries because I'm from the UK, but I think other countries get more "real" holiday days than the UK. Most companies I've worked for offer a little more than the minimum, for example I get 23 days excluding bank holidays and that generally increases by a day per year you've worked at the company or something like that.
      - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
        > A quick google search and I can't find many places in Europe that offer 25 days, not including the national holidays. The legal minimum in Europe is 20 days' vacation plus national holidays. Competitive employers offer more.
      - jinglebells 10y ago
        6 weeks holiday in UK, Germany and Sweden is fairly normal. I don't know about the other countries.
    - lg 10y ago
  - Oletros 10y ago
    At least in Spain, maternity is full paid by the state
mi100hael 10y ago
Right. The articles aren't suggesting that Americans choose to work themselves to death, only that it's culturally acceptable. In most salaried office jobs you could set a hard stop at 5pm and refuse to answer calls on weekends, but you'd find yourself quickly replaced by someone who would. So you "choose" to put in the extra hours so you don't find yourself unemployed.

creshal 10y ago

We have more (paid) vacation and more public holidays and sick leave is both paid for and not counted towards the vacation budget, and more maternity/paternity leave, and some countries have extra leave for things like family funerals. It's not hard to "work less" like that.

wil421 10y ago
I have all this things in the US. Sick leave is not counted in my vacation. Maternity leave is much longer than paternity. And is paid for in full at my company for a time. FMLA allows 12 weeks total but it can be unpaid. The main difference I've seen with the Europeans I work with is, they take big chunks off at a time in summer. They pay more taxes but have more time off. Most likely don't get full pay for Maternity/paternity leave.
- roebk 10y ago
  It's great that you have all things things, but are they standard in the US? I think that's the main issue here, that as a baseline, europeans tend to get more time off.
- snovv_crash 10y ago
  I haven't seen any US companies offering 25 days of paid vacation a year, plus unlimited sick leave (doctors note required for more than 3 consecutive days), plus extra days off for personal emergencies eg children sick, death in family. All the money in SV could never make me go there if I never have time to spend it.
  - wil421 10y ago
    A quick google search and I can't find many places in Europe that offer 25 days, not including the national holidays. If I include national holidays I get 22 days off. No set sick days unless you're out for more than 5 consecutive days. I'm not sure why you'd move to SV, startup life's seems like hell.
    - snovv_crash 10y ago
      From Wikipedia[1], minimum annual days leave are: UK: 28 Austria, Denmark, Finland, France, Luxembourg, Norway, Sweden: 25 Iceland, Malta: 24 Portugal, Spain: 22 The EU mandates a minimum of 20 days, so all other EU member states have 20. Of course, these are just the mandated minimums. Many employers will give more to be competitive. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b...
      - Accacin 10y ago
        8 of those in the UK are Bank Holidays. I'm not sure about others countries because I'm from the UK, but I think other countries get more "real" holiday days than the UK. Most companies I've worked for offer a little more than the minimum, for example I get 23 days excluding bank holidays and that generally increases by a day per year you've worked at the company or something like that.
    - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
      > A quick google search and I can't find many places in Europe that offer 25 days, not including the national holidays. The legal minimum in Europe is 20 days' vacation plus national holidays. Competitive employers offer more.
    - jinglebells 10y ago
      6 weeks holiday in UK, Germany and Sweden is fairly normal. I don't know about the other countries.
  - lg 10y ago
- Oletros 10y ago
  At least in Spain, maternity is full paid by the state

mi100hael 10y ago

Right. The articles aren't suggesting that Americans choose to work themselves to death, only that it's culturally acceptable. In most salaried office jobs you could set a hard stop at 5pm and refuse to answer calls on weekends, but you'd find yourself quickly replaced by someone who would. So you "choose" to put in the extra hours so you don't find yourself unemployed.