5 ms·

So all Hillary supporters endorse torture and believe it should be (sometimes) legal? https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2006/10/tort-o28.html https://www.wsws.o

So all Hillary supporters endorse torture and believe it should be (sometimes) legal? https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2006/10/tort-o28.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2006/10/tort-o28.html All Obama supporters in 2008 and 2012 endorse his anti-gay marriage views?

alanh 10y ago
Yes, this is worth noting. Presidential candidate is essentially a binary choice, not on/off, but A or B; one or both candidates can deeply offend people in certain ways and yet still get their vote or support because of a certain issue on which there is actually agreement. Cognitive dissonance can be a hell of a thing, and it seems to be at play here. We should recognize this and limit our extreme reactions when it rears its head.
- matt4077 10y ago
  It seems like there's certain difference not just in magnitude but quality between Trump and previous Republicans. I'd have never voted for Romney, for example, but I wouldn't have had a major problem with friends supporting him. Trump seems to be different. He's different enough to get a significant number of Republicans to defect – not just other candidates, who might just be following public opinion, but also retiring politicians or commentators, where I can't think of a reason besides an honest believe in the danger of a Trump presidency. His words & actions actions are outside the Overton window, and I'd argue the problem is that he's not just threatening policy positions many hold dear (something like drilling for oil in national parks or supporting the poor<1>), but because he seems to potential affect the machinery of democracy itself (threatening to create laws restricting the press' ability to criticize him or to jail HC). <1> made-up examples of policies people don't like. I actually couldn't remember any policies he's advocating
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    Hillary also supports laws restricting the ability to criticize her. She will probably choose a supreme Court justice who will roll back citizens united (which protected the ability of private citizens to make "Hillary: The Movie" which criticized Hillary). That isn't outside the Overtones window at all.
    - alanh 10y ago
      Good point: there are reasons to view Hillary as the unacceptable choice (not that I am saying these reasons are convincing reasons or not). Certainly there is a lot not to like, such as her scary and vague plea for an “intelligence surge”, which sure sounds like a dramatic increase in monitoring of civilians
hyperbovine 10y ago
Endorsing != supporting. But if you cast your vote for somebody who has execrable views then yes, that's on you as well. You can try and tell yourself otherwise, but it's delusion.

alanh 10y ago

Yes, this is worth noting. Presidential candidate is essentially a binary choice, not on/off, but A or B; one or both candidates can deeply offend people in certain ways and yet still get their vote or support because of a certain issue on which there is actually agreement. Cognitive dissonance can be a hell of a thing, and it seems to be at play here. We should recognize this and limit our extreme reactions when it rears its head.

matt4077 10y ago
It seems like there's certain difference not just in magnitude but quality between Trump and previous Republicans. I'd have never voted for Romney, for example, but I wouldn't have had a major problem with friends supporting him. Trump seems to be different. He's different enough to get a significant number of Republicans to defect – not just other candidates, who might just be following public opinion, but also retiring politicians or commentators, where I can't think of a reason besides an honest believe in the danger of a Trump presidency. His words & actions actions are outside the Overton window, and I'd argue the problem is that he's not just threatening policy positions many hold dear (something like drilling for oil in national parks or supporting the poor<1>), but because he seems to potential affect the machinery of democracy itself (threatening to create laws restricting the press' ability to criticize him or to jail HC). <1> made-up examples of policies people don't like. I actually couldn't remember any policies he's advocating
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  Hillary also supports laws restricting the ability to criticize her. She will probably choose a supreme Court justice who will roll back citizens united (which protected the ability of private citizens to make "Hillary: The Movie" which criticized Hillary). That isn't outside the Overtones window at all.
  - alanh 10y ago
    Good point: there are reasons to view Hillary as the unacceptable choice (not that I am saying these reasons are convincing reasons or not). Certainly there is a lot not to like, such as her scary and vague plea for an “intelligence surge”, which sure sounds like a dramatic increase in monitoring of civilians

hyperbovine 10y ago

Endorsing != supporting. But if you cast your vote for somebody who has execrable views then yes, that's on you as well. You can try and tell yourself otherwise, but it's delusion.