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What Happens to American Myth When You Take the Driver Out of It?
- tedajax 10y agoI know Google has gone the route of removing the steering wheel but it seems that even if vehicles have self-driving capabilities some level of "manual override" will be desirable especially if you're not in a densely populated area. Using a car to pull a stuck vehicle out of the mud is certainly a valid use-case that not everyone will want to give up. Yeah it might become illegal to use manual driving modes on public highways or something but I can't imagine that we're going to be strictly limited to what the GPS software says is a valid destination and I'd find it impressive if software was written for every action people do with cars. That being said these technology companies always seem to move towards smaller feature sets that intersect with the use-cases of the largest user bases and power users are often forced to hack together their own custom solutions if they don't fall into the general population of users so if anything this article is a warning to not let the Apple's and Google's define how we use self-driving cars.
- gumby 10y agoAny need for a manual controls is a failure of software.
- madsushi 10y agoAnd software has failures.
- khedoros1 10y agoSoftware has a long, long way to go before it accounts for every possible situation where normal people use cars. We'll need manual controls to work around shortcomings in the software for a long time after mostly-autonomous driving becomes the norm.
- gaius 10y agoHaha - every weekend I drive somewhere that GPS is useless.
- titanomachy 10y agoSince you wouldn't use it frequently, maybe it would make sense to have a less obtrusive control in place of the steering wheel. Maybe a joystick by the armrest, or something.
- mathattack 10y agoGood riddance to drivers! The American Myth survived our abandonment of horses. It didn't seem to crush the importance of the Western in our culture.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- M_Grey 10y agoNot to mention that it was always a myth. The reality was always some form of danger, pollution (horses are messy!), wasted energy and treasure.
- ocschwar 10y agoAnd it was not really a big institution. Transportation in the early US relied on MULE teams more than horses. And east of the Mississippi, we rowed.
- cwilkes 10y agoRowed, in water? Luxury. West of the Mississippi we used to drag our boats through rock beds while the sun beat down on us for 29 hours a day.
- TheCoelacanth 10y ago> The reality was always some form of danger, pollution, wasted energy Sounds a lot like cars.
- Turing_Machine 10y agoI recall a science fiction story (or maybe more than one) in which a fun activity for teenagers was punching a destination at random. There's adventure for you. :-)
- yardie 10y agoI'm currently sitting in a train station parking lot watching my Uber drive around in circles. Apparently Google maps is unaware there is a new easier entrance and still instructs drivers to enter through the old construction site. This has gone on for the 3 months I've used them as part of my commute. I'm looking forward to the day where I get into an argument with a wheelless self-driving car about taking shortcuts and avoiding traffic. Simply because I have local knowledge on traffic patterns which most maps still lacks.
- CamperBob2 10y agoThe #1 pro tip with Uber is never, ever call for a ride unless you have clear blue sky overhead. Otherwise, because you can't enable the satellite view, it's hard to be sure what location is actually going to be reported to the driver. Location services can be way off base when GPS reception is poor, and in many urban settings an error of a hundred yards might as well be ten miles. Uber could make life a lot easier for everyone if they'd just enable the satellite view, so you can verify that the driver will be sent to the location where you actually are. (Edit: Instead of downvoting, consider explaining why I'm wrong. Maybe there's something extremely silly that I'm missing.)
- jdminhbg 10y agoI'm not sure I understand this at all. You can move a pin to set your exact location in Uber and Lyft, you don't need to rely on GPS at all. Whether the directions supplied to driver get them there are accurate doesn't depend on GPS.
- CamperBob2 10y agoYou can move a pin to set your exact location in Uber and Lyft, you don't need to rely on GPS at all. Whether the directions supplied to driver get them there are accurate doesn't depend on GPS. If I don't know where I am on the map, what use is moving pins around going to be? Case in point -- I was in Las Vegas recently, and made the mistake of calling Uber from under the covered walkway at a large casino/hotel entrance. The driver ended up being dispatched down a back road leading off into the desert behind the hotel. Because the map showed nothing but nearby streets, there was no way to tell that it was reporting my position incorrectly. In the satellite view that's normally available in map-based applications, it would be very obvious that my reported location was nowhere near the hotel entrance.
- acconrad 10y agoI completely disagree that self-driving cars are un-American. In fact I would go so far as to say that self-driving cars are the future to the American suburb. If America was founded on freedom and the pursuit of happiness, what could be more American than having a robot car chauffeur you to and from work while you work in your car? The ability to be free from an oppressive commute may lead to a resurgence in the American suburbs. It's a far-fetched notion but I wouldn't be surprised by it either.
- jbpetersen 10y agoI've been wondering for a while now about how SD cars will impact housing/land markets. I'd love to hear some of HN's thoughts.
- maxsilver 10y agoIn theory, it could help reduce housing costs, by making cheaper land still usable for commuting. In practice, many of the cities with the highest housing costs are now strongly anti-infrastructure and anti-transport anytime it involves cars. (What good is a self-driving car if it's getting stuck in the same-or-larger traffic jam everyday?). Cities like this problem because it adds to the inflation of their own property values, and they get to pretend they are being "greener" or "safer" (even though self-driving EV cars eliminate the majority of those issues). So I suspect that in practice, self-driving cars won't lower housing costs much in most major markets. It could help smaller cities, but they already struggle less with housing costs in the first place. --- The biggest changes will probably be felt elsewhere. Such as by professional drivers (school/city bus drivers, truck drivers, taxi/uber, etc). I also suspect some spill over against flights. It might soon be cheaper for a family of four to rent a self-driving Chevy Bolt to drive from ORD to MSP or ORD to ATL, than to fly there. Especially since, once you land in MSP/ATL, you'll need a car to get around anyway. --- Wealthy people will continue to be mostly unaffected, as they can already afford to live where they work, and can already choose to have no meaningful commute, anytime they desire to.
- dmurdoch 10y ago
- CalChris 10y agoEVs pose a similar question. I have a Leaf which is silent. No growl at the intersection. This has changed my driving and how I see other cars.
- trgn 10y agoI started to loath the sound of heavy acceleration, especially when walking or cycling, even when I'm driving myself. The only thing I can think is "what a dipsh*t". It's the noise, the menace of that lurch forward. It's not appropriate for the public realm. I love cars, the analog character of an internal combustion engine. But I can't wait until most cars are electric. It's so much more civilized. ICE cars will be left for recreation, race tracks, impressing a date. Fun curiosities that a toddler would point at when it roars by. But in large numbers, I dislike them with a passion.
- corey_moncure 10y agoI recently picked up a used Leaf as well, and I'm absolutely loving it. One thing I've noticed in addition to what you mentioned is how conspicuous the smell of cars with ICEs has become, when I get near them or in them. There will always be reluctant holdouts who cling to the American machismo of a loud, stinky, rumbling ICE, see so-called "coal rollers" who modify their diesel trucks to terrorize other motorists and cyclists by emitting huge clouds of soot on demand. It sure doesn't sound or look impressive; however, there is something deeply convincing about the instant and effortless authority of the electric motor's acceleration. And the Leaf is relatively anemic compared to other EVs available today!
- holmak 10y agoSilent, deadly electric cars... Joking aside, they've snuck up on me more than once when I'm about to cross the street and they're trying to right-on-red. I'm surprised they don't have some artificial noise to improve awareness.
- kwhitefoot 10y agoPlease don't suggest adding noise to electric cars. There is a danger that a politician or regulator will take the idea seriously.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- bogomipz 10y agoThis article reminded me of David Cronenberg film "Crash" based on J.G Ballard book. Its interesting and worth a watch, although it might not be for everyone. There's a few different versions and I think I saw the uncut one.
- Aloha 10y agoSo, this will work great in Downtown someplace - but not so well outer whoknowswhereville - I spent a majority of the last three years driving on; roads not on maps, dirt roads, logging roads, roads with no internet access, and poorly marked roads. We might be able to replace taxicabs thru automation likely in the next 20 - I dont think we will ever replace drivers. I see automation in a car taking the same route as autopilot in the airplane - not total automation, just partial.
- laughfactory 10y agoI agree in part, but think it'll go further than you expect. I suspect manual driving will, in the next twenty years, require lots of additional training, licensing, insurance, and certifications. And you'll have to prove special circumstances (farm use only, etc). As the technology gets there maps will catch up, and likely become more and more real-time. It seems impossible now, but I'll bet the next wave of mapping will marry a thick web of satellites and machine learning to essentially figure out what is a road, a dirt road, a road with construction, etc. And that will be fed to the cars in their respective areas. The present situation will seem quaint indeed. So even in rural areas, there will likely be auto cars everywhere by in the most remote of areas (similar to how in some places the snowmobile and ATV are more heavily utilized than cars simply because of environmental/geographical reasons). I also inside this sea change will heavily impact rural areas and many of them will either be transformed or erased. Think about what happened when the interstates were built. Many towns which had previously prospered on state highways and the like almost literally overnight just vanished...Or turned into just a gas station, diner, and bar for what few travelers remained.
- nixonpjoshua1 10y agoGood article, the mention of rural America is interesting though since self driving cars to my knowledge still can't operate in an unmapped dirt road properly or otherwise handle the challenges of going off the beaten path. I'd like to see one of these self-driving cars tackle a mountain road in a blizzard, just not when I'm on that road ;)
- rschuetzler 10y agoTo be fair, most people can't tackle a mountain road in a blizzard. At least if the streets of my hometown after a mild snowstorm are any indication.
- mithoon 10y agoAt first I read it "American Meth"
- rabboRubble 10y agoThe driver in the American Myth will go the way of surrey with the fringe on top. Back when my grandmother was still alive, I was doing a crossword with she and her friend. Crossword hint was "has a fringe on top". Her friend said "surrey", the correct answer, and followed up with "my family had a surrey with a fringe". My gobsmacked grandmother said dripping with envy "your family had one with fringe?!" Two generations later, I drool over phones and gadgetry. So yeah, the driver will go the way of the fringe.
- bobbles 10y agoA surrey with a fringe for anyone else that had no idea wtf a surrey was http://www.berkeleyfestival.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/surrey_fringe.jpg http://www.berkeleyfestival.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/s...
- rz2k 10y agoNote that the crossword was almost certainly referring to the song from the musical Oklahoma. The pretend envy might have been about having something from the popular lexicon, rather than fringe being like a technological feature.
- rabboRubble 10y agoYou are probably right about the crossword clue. But the grandmother's envy was not pretend, but perhaps colored by surprise. I think the surrey with fringe was a luxurious status symbol, like having a Mercedes-Benz or something. The surprise would be like finding out that your plain Jane unassuming friend grew up in a fairly rich family.
- bitJericho 10y agoFor an example and lovely song: http://youtu.be/BIG_GVE-KiE http://youtu.be/BIG_GVE-KiE
- basicplus2 10y agothe difference in the American myth will be which seat in the car people will be sitting in.
- Ericson2314 10y agoYes. Conservative areas may make a point of banning them. The house and the car are the pinnacle of consumption in America. On the flip side, car culture is already on its last legs. Cars became hideous in the 80s, and monotonous in the 90s. And increasing gearheadom is derided as lower class, non-white, or rural. Cars themselves with their reduced noise, better suspensions, and more sealed interiors isolate their inhabitants from the outside world and the feel of driving. I once had the joy of riding an MG-TD: thrilling at any speed.
- huffmsa 10y ago> And increasing gearheadom is derided as lower class, non-white, or rural. Don't mind F1, Le Mans and club racing, three of the most capital and technology intensive activities you can participate in.
- Ericson2314 10y agoI'm from America. Those are less well known here.
- huffmsa 10y agoDoes the Man with No Name have the same aura about him if he rides into town on a self guided horse? Transportation with know destinations (planes trains and self driving cars) diminishes the role "fate" plays in ones destiny. The invisible hand becomes visible because all arrival in a place is preceded by intent to be there. So yes, it does signal at least a change to the American Myth.
- allcentury 10y agoWonderful read, interesting on so many levels.