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Yeah, fair enough. That's a very good way of putting it, and I know exactly what you mean. I think the hardest part about implementing the Vim keybindings is t

by gepoch 10y ago

Yeah, fair enough. That's a very good way of putting it, and I know exactly what you mean. I think the hardest part about implementing the Vim keybindings is that they're intrinsically linked to the way that Vim models text and operations. Commands are really statements about this internal model. Without the model, it gets difficult to reproduce the full palette of vim commands with very high fidelity. You kind of inevitably have to build your own vim-like text model to handle the keystrokes, and map it back into the platform that you're on (which is often a dumb buffer object for most text editors.) It's certainly much deeper than a keybinding. I called it an interface, but that's still not really deep enough. Well, anyways maybe NeoVim is good after all.

Philipp__ 10y ago
I encourage you to try NeoVim. I did. And I never looked back. After 6 months of Emacs, looks like I'll be back to NeoVim, and I am happy about it.
- weaksauce 10y ago
  you might want to give spacemacs a go... it's quite good after you translate whatever vim config to emacs config. out of the box it's actually quite great and this is coming from a hardcore vim user that can't stand using a text editor without vi bindings and proper macro support etc. Everything is done pretty well and there isn't anything that I have found dealbreakingly lacking so far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKF41ivkBb0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKF41ivkBb0 it's also under active development so if that's your thing check it out. https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs/ https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs/
  - Philipp__ 10y ago
    I know about spacemacs, and don't like the idea of core editor. Tried it and ended up using not emacs, not vim, but mix of both, and commands from both. And I do not like that.
    - Veen 10y ago
      I had the same experience. I love the idea of the space leader and the mnemonic keymappings, but too much of Emacs leaked through. I've taken the lessons learned from Spacemacs and applied them to vim, remapping the leader to space and using mnemonics for remapping of some commands — all the markdown based commands are under space m, for example.
      - weaksauce 10y ago
        I had my leader set to spacebar in vim and used mneumonics for the bindings already, but the main thing other than the discovery of forggoten leader keybindings(how many can you really remember even with mneumonics?) that I dislike about vim is how almost every extension just feels broken and hacked together. there are some that work well but a lot of them are just crap and I attribute that directly to extension authors wanting to use viml as much as possible to keep maximum compatibility and reduce external dependencies. Lisp is a good language that is self documenting as well as being usable. viml is a terribly hacky language that is awkward at best and counterproductive at worst. I still love vim but vim needs a better language around it. perhaps when neovim picks up steam the lua backend will lure people to write good plugins in it.(lua is a pretty good language overall). just depends on who wins the war now between vim and neovim now that vim has better async support.

by gepoch 10y ago

Philipp__ 10y ago

I encourage you to try NeoVim. I did. And I never looked back. After 6 months of Emacs, looks like I'll be back to NeoVim, and I am happy about it.

weaksauce 10y ago
you might want to give spacemacs a go... it's quite good after you translate whatever vim config to emacs config. out of the box it's actually quite great and this is coming from a hardcore vim user that can't stand using a text editor without vi bindings and proper macro support etc. Everything is done pretty well and there isn't anything that I have found dealbreakingly lacking so far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKF41ivkBb0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKF41ivkBb0 it's also under active development so if that's your thing check it out. https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs/ https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs/
- Philipp__ 10y ago
  I know about spacemacs, and don't like the idea of core editor. Tried it and ended up using not emacs, not vim, but mix of both, and commands from both. And I do not like that.
  - Veen 10y ago
    I had the same experience. I love the idea of the space leader and the mnemonic keymappings, but too much of Emacs leaked through. I've taken the lessons learned from Spacemacs and applied them to vim, remapping the leader to space and using mnemonics for remapping of some commands — all the markdown based commands are under space m, for example.
    - weaksauce 10y ago
      I had my leader set to spacebar in vim and used mneumonics for the bindings already, but the main thing other than the discovery of forggoten leader keybindings(how many can you really remember even with mneumonics?) that I dislike about vim is how almost every extension just feels broken and hacked together. there are some that work well but a lot of them are just crap and I attribute that directly to extension authors wanting to use viml as much as possible to keep maximum compatibility and reduce external dependencies. Lisp is a good language that is self documenting as well as being usable. viml is a terribly hacky language that is awkward at best and counterproductive at worst. I still love vim but vim needs a better language around it. perhaps when neovim picks up steam the lua backend will lure people to write good plugins in it.(lua is a pretty good language overall). just depends on who wins the war now between vim and neovim now that vim has better async support.