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> Trump shares this antidemocratic sentiment. what tangible evidence do you have that he is anti-democratic?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
colemickens 10y ago
He's repeatedly threatened to throw journalists in jail that wrote things he didn't like. He threatened, on stage, in a Presidential debate, to unilaterally throw his political opponent HRC in jail. He is already contesting the results of the Democratic election weeks before it has even happened. And that's just what he's said. The fascist overtones are present in a variety of other ways. He makes minority groups scapegoats in order to appeal to ignorant masses.
- zeveb 10y ago
  > He threatened, on stage, in a Presidential debate, to unilaterally throw his political opponent HRC in jail. To object to that is to beg the question of whether she belongs in jail or not. I won't take a position on that, but it should be obvious that being a political candidate doesn't grant one immunity from prosecution for improperly divulging classified information (or for sexual assault, for that matter; I can't remember a previous where folks could legitimately debate whether both candidates should be in jail).
  - colemickens 10y ago
    No, it's not. First of all, just like Benghazi, she's already been investigated by her political opponents and they've come up empty-handed. Second of all, Trump didn't call for her to be prosecuted; he claimed he would single-handedly lock her up of his own authority. To object to literal fascism is to acknowledge that we live in a Constitutional Democracy and have an actual legal and judicial system which is not to be subverted by a unilateral Executive branch actor who has a short temper and a grudge. You know, basic separation of powers principals that are fundamental pillars of our Democracy. But then again, this is the party that has illegally obstructed the nomination for the Scalia's replacement for the last 9 months, and will continue to do so for the next 3 _AND_ has already proclaimed that they will obstruct HRC's nominations as well... So it's nothing new to disregard the Constitution for the Republicans at this point, I guess.
- int_19h 10y ago
  I would actually agree with OP that Trump is not anti-democratic, ideologically speaking. His ideology is actually the other extreme - it's mob rule with a strong leader who can do whatever they want (phrased as "whatever needs to be done"), having the mandate to do so from the mob. Very similar to the current arrangement in Russia, for example (yes, elections are rigged, but Putin would still get a large majority even in fair elections), or now also in the Philippines. Trumpism is anti-democratic in practice, because it doesn't have actual popular support, and so has to resort to conspiracy theories to explain it away by claiming that elections are rigged etc, effectively trying to disenfranchise its opponents. But its adherents don't see it that way - they genuinely believe that there's a conspiracy against them, and they would have won in fair elections; so from their perspective, they're fighting for democracy.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

He's repeatedly threatened to throw journalists in jail that wrote things he didn't like. He threatened, on stage, in a Presidential debate, to unilaterally throw his political opponent HRC in jail. He is already contesting the results of the Democratic election weeks before it has even happened. And that's just what he's said. The fascist overtones are present in a variety of other ways. He makes minority groups scapegoats in order to appeal to ignorant masses.

zeveb 10y ago
> He threatened, on stage, in a Presidential debate, to unilaterally throw his political opponent HRC in jail. To object to that is to beg the question of whether she belongs in jail or not. I won't take a position on that, but it should be obvious that being a political candidate doesn't grant one immunity from prosecution for improperly divulging classified information (or for sexual assault, for that matter; I can't remember a previous where folks could legitimately debate whether both candidates should be in jail).
- colemickens 10y ago
  No, it's not. First of all, just like Benghazi, she's already been investigated by her political opponents and they've come up empty-handed. Second of all, Trump didn't call for her to be prosecuted; he claimed he would single-handedly lock her up of his own authority. To object to literal fascism is to acknowledge that we live in a Constitutional Democracy and have an actual legal and judicial system which is not to be subverted by a unilateral Executive branch actor who has a short temper and a grudge. You know, basic separation of powers principals that are fundamental pillars of our Democracy. But then again, this is the party that has illegally obstructed the nomination for the Scalia's replacement for the last 9 months, and will continue to do so for the next 3 _AND_ has already proclaimed that they will obstruct HRC's nominations as well... So it's nothing new to disregard the Constitution for the Republicans at this point, I guess.
int_19h 10y ago
I would actually agree with OP that Trump is not anti-democratic, ideologically speaking. His ideology is actually the other extreme - it's mob rule with a strong leader who can do whatever they want (phrased as "whatever needs to be done"), having the mandate to do so from the mob. Very similar to the current arrangement in Russia, for example (yes, elections are rigged, but Putin would still get a large majority even in fair elections), or now also in the Philippines. Trumpism is anti-democratic in practice, because it doesn't have actual popular support, and so has to resort to conspiracy theories to explain it away by claiming that elections are rigged etc, effectively trying to disenfranchise its opponents. But its adherents don't see it that way - they genuinely believe that there's a conspiracy against them, and they would have won in fair elections; so from their perspective, they're fighting for democracy.