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The LGPL adopted by Webkit is much more restrictive than the MPL adopted by gecko (gecko still adopts GPL and LGPL, just because them it can link with GPL softw

by zppx 17y ago

The LGPL adopted by Webkit is much more restrictive than the MPL adopted by gecko (gecko still adopts GPL and LGPL, just because them it can link with GPL software), if you're blaming gecko for supporting Theora but not H.264 I must remember that the WebKit codebase do not includes an H.264 codec, it's Apple and Google that link the codec against webkit, any application that uses the bare WebKit will have to include its own version of the H.264 code, that said technically webkit is advancing much faster than gecko in some areas (WebGL for example). Concerning gcc, were you reading the mailing list of the gcc project for the last 20 years or so? What you said about Stallman is a fairly serious accusation, and as such must be supported with facts, as far as I know Stallman wasn't even important among gcc developers in the last 10 years, also in the very beginning gcc was intended to be the compiler of the GNU system, the technical reality for compilers in the 80s was probably different from now.

frou_dh 16y ago
I have very little knowledge of GCC procedure, but I've seen these linked from a pro-clang comparison. http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2007-11/msg00460.html http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2007-11/msg00460.html http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2004-12/msg00888.html http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2004-12/msg00888.html
- _delirium 16y ago
  That's probably accurate, but supports something a bit different on the timeline: Stallman opposed a change in the gcc architecture in the 2000s that he thought would make it easier for companies to make proprietary derivatives. But that's not quite the same as saying he wrote it in the 80s to deliberately prevent it from being extensible. When he was writing it in the 80s, getting a whole C compiler written from scratch was probably the bigger design goal. I tend to find the sniping at Stallman over gcc a little annoying overall. There are plenty of ways I disagree with Stallman's strategy, but from a "show me the code" perspective, he produced a free-software C compiler suitable for use in a modern free Unix 25 years before any of the MIT/BSD-license proponents did (until llvm, their only real alternative was the original pcc from the 1970s, which is why the BSDs all grudgingly use gcc).
blasdel 16y ago
Nobody else ships codecs baked into their rendering engine because that's a fucking stupid thing to do, something you'd only do if you wanted to prevent users from using other codecs without forking the entire project. Everyone else links against an intermediary framework (QT, ffmpeg, gstreamer) and lets that dictate codec support. Chrome/Chromium does ship with a minimal libavcodec, but you can swap it out with a symlink to your system's full ffmpeg. GCC was the canonical 'cathedral' project, controlled absolutely by Stallman through the FSF, a reign interrupted by the EGCS folks who had the gall to want a working compiler. Mozilla may play up their whole 'community' angle, but they aren't very 'bazaar' at all in reality. Patches are unwelcome. A bunch of independent parties, most of them corporate enemies, contribute to the core WebKit project on a first-class basis. There have never been corporate contributors to Gecko, and they've repeatedly fucked over all the open source projects that used Gecko directly, to the point that only one is left (Camino). They don't even really support non-Firefox apps on top of XULrunner, including the ones they wrote themselves!
- zppx 16y ago
  upvoted, really good response, but calm down man, it appears you're barking.

by zppx 17y ago

frou_dh 16y ago

I have very little knowledge of GCC procedure, but I've seen these linked from a pro-clang comparison. http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2007-11/msg00460.html http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2007-11/msg00460.html http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2004-12/msg00888.html http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2004-12/msg00888.html

_delirium 16y ago
That's probably accurate, but supports something a bit different on the timeline: Stallman opposed a change in the gcc architecture in the 2000s that he thought would make it easier for companies to make proprietary derivatives. But that's not quite the same as saying he wrote it in the 80s to deliberately prevent it from being extensible. When he was writing it in the 80s, getting a whole C compiler written from scratch was probably the bigger design goal. I tend to find the sniping at Stallman over gcc a little annoying overall. There are plenty of ways I disagree with Stallman's strategy, but from a "show me the code" perspective, he produced a free-software C compiler suitable for use in a modern free Unix 25 years before any of the MIT/BSD-license proponents did (until llvm, their only real alternative was the original pcc from the 1970s, which is why the BSDs all grudgingly use gcc).

blasdel 16y ago

Nobody else ships codecs baked into their rendering engine because that's a fucking stupid thing to do, something you'd only do if you wanted to prevent users from using other codecs without forking the entire project. Everyone else links against an intermediary framework (QT, ffmpeg, gstreamer) and lets that dictate codec support. Chrome/Chromium does ship with a minimal libavcodec, but you can swap it out with a symlink to your system's full ffmpeg. GCC was the canonical 'cathedral' project, controlled absolutely by Stallman through the FSF, a reign interrupted by the EGCS folks who had the gall to want a working compiler. Mozilla may play up their whole 'community' angle, but they aren't very 'bazaar' at all in reality. Patches are unwelcome. A bunch of independent parties, most of them corporate enemies, contribute to the core WebKit project on a first-class basis. There have never been corporate contributors to Gecko, and they've repeatedly fucked over all the open source projects that used Gecko directly, to the point that only one is left (Camino). They don't even really support non-Firefox apps on top of XULrunner, including the ones they wrote themselves!

zppx 16y ago
upvoted, really good response, but calm down man, it appears you're barking.