5 ms·

This doesn't sound like a Computer Science course. Maybe for something like a Software Engineering degree, but not for CS.

by deeebug 10y ago

ASpring 10y ago
Agreed. The post is so devoid of any context about where this would fit in a program that it's hard to tell what the author was attempting to convey. It's absolutely inappropriate as a starting point for either CS or SE.
catnaroek 10y ago
Agreed. This raises even more questions: Do we need more computer scientists or software engineers? Why do so many universities offer computer science programs, if the job market is primarily asking for software engineers? Even worse, why do so many universities offer software engineering programs that call themselves “computer science” programs? Isn't that lying to students?
- ktRolster 10y ago
  The job market seems to favor Computers Science degrees over Software Engineering degrees. Although it favors job experience over both.
  - catnaroek 10y ago
    Why? Because of the word “scientist” in the degree's name? What exactly is the point to employing a scientist to perform non-scientific tasks?
    - deanstag 10y ago
      My guess would be that a CS program would cover more fundamentals on which you can always build upon, but a Sw Engineering program might not focus on the basics as much. Of course there might be exceptions in either programs.
    - ktRolster 10y ago
      I think because CS degrees tend to produce more competent programmers, for some reason.
      - wyager 10y ago
        Because CS endows a more fundamental understanding than SE. SE classes are often along the lines of "Here's how you do OOP in Java", whereas CS classes are more along the lines of "Here's how you formalize OO semantics and then implement the semantics at a low level." The latter approach is generally more effective, if more difficult.
        catnaroek 10y ago
        Sometimes I'm not even sure if “software engineering” can be said to exist as a discipline. In every other branch of engineering (mechanical, chemical, etc.), practitioners actually understand the scientific foundations of their profession, even if they aren't research scientists themselves.
      - protomyth 10y ago
        I would actually like to see a study on that. I'm not so sure its true, and it certainly has not been my experience. I do wonder if anyone is ever going to do a full study on the subject. Weirdly, some of the best programmers I have met are people who go their degree in Music Theory. Odd and really not enough sample size.
        ktRolster 10y ago
        What metrics do you use to evaluate 'best programmers?'
        protomyth 10y ago
        For myself, I look at people who produce code that meets the specification in as brief, logical, secure manner as possible without causing a maintenance burden for their fellow programmers or the support staff.
    - utnick 10y ago
      I think its because the job market favors CS degrees, so the best students go for the CS degree
    - xeromal 10y ago
      In a lot of schools, a CS degree can be a barrier. Many people change majors or wash out due to the rigor of a CS degree.
  - slmyers 10y ago
    It seems to me that most job adverts require a technical degree or relevant experience. I feel that very few jobs would make a distinction between a SE or CS degree.
  - sotojuan 10y ago
    Are SE degrees common the US? I've only seen a couple of colleges that offer them and they weren't very good colleges or quite obscure. If the top 50~ universities offered a SE degree that included say, half of a CS degree with the other half being project/internship/"real world" stuff, would the job market still prefer CS?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
arekkas 10y ago
That's what you do in courses like "Introduction to Software Engineering" (first/second lecture), which usually are part of the first BSc CS semester. I don't disagree though that the title is misleading and the content quite disappointing and it wouldn't make a semester-long course because that list is covered in 10 minutes and it's nowhere near academia.
- catnaroek 10y ago
  I knew what to expect from the title. An actual computer scientist wouldn't be clueless enough to suggest (s)he can teach everything about computer science. Instead he would probably say how (s)he would teach something in his(er) narrow field of specialization - algorithms, databases, operating systems, compilers, whatever.
empath75 10y ago
It's not even software engineering, it's just basic troubleshooting skills. You could teach automotive repair or plumbing the same way, probably. I'd like to see a course taught in that that doesn't necessarily focus on computers, because those skills are tremendously applicable in pretty much every field.

This doesn't sound like a Computer Science course. Maybe for something like a Software Engineering degree, but not for CS.

by deeebug 10y ago

This doesn't sound like a Computer Science course. Maybe for something like a Software Engineering degree, but not for CS.

ASpring 10y ago

Agreed. The post is so devoid of any context about where this would fit in a program that it's hard to tell what the author was attempting to convey. It's absolutely inappropriate as a starting point for either CS or SE.

catnaroek 10y ago

Agreed. This raises even more questions: Do we need more computer scientists or software engineers? Why do so many universities offer computer science programs, if the job market is primarily asking for software engineers? Even worse, why do so many universities offer software engineering programs that call themselves “computer science” programs? Isn't that lying to students?

ktRolster 10y ago
The job market seems to favor Computers Science degrees over Software Engineering degrees. Although it favors job experience over both.
- catnaroek 10y ago
  Why? Because of the word “scientist” in the degree's name? What exactly is the point to employing a scientist to perform non-scientific tasks?
  - deanstag 10y ago
    My guess would be that a CS program would cover more fundamentals on which you can always build upon, but a Sw Engineering program might not focus on the basics as much. Of course there might be exceptions in either programs.
  - ktRolster 10y ago
    I think because CS degrees tend to produce more competent programmers, for some reason.
    - wyager 10y ago
      Because CS endows a more fundamental understanding than SE. SE classes are often along the lines of "Here's how you do OOP in Java", whereas CS classes are more along the lines of "Here's how you formalize OO semantics and then implement the semantics at a low level." The latter approach is generally more effective, if more difficult.
      - catnaroek 10y ago
        Sometimes I'm not even sure if “software engineering” can be said to exist as a discipline. In every other branch of engineering (mechanical, chemical, etc.), practitioners actually understand the scientific foundations of their profession, even if they aren't research scientists themselves.
    - protomyth 10y ago
      I would actually like to see a study on that. I'm not so sure its true, and it certainly has not been my experience. I do wonder if anyone is ever going to do a full study on the subject. Weirdly, some of the best programmers I have met are people who go their degree in Music Theory. Odd and really not enough sample size.
      - ktRolster 10y ago
        What metrics do you use to evaluate 'best programmers?'
        protomyth 10y ago
        For myself, I look at people who produce code that meets the specification in as brief, logical, secure manner as possible without causing a maintenance burden for their fellow programmers or the support staff.
  - utnick 10y ago
    I think its because the job market favors CS degrees, so the best students go for the CS degree
  - xeromal 10y ago
    In a lot of schools, a CS degree can be a barrier. Many people change majors or wash out due to the rigor of a CS degree.
- slmyers 10y ago
  It seems to me that most job adverts require a technical degree or relevant experience. I feel that very few jobs would make a distinction between a SE or CS degree.
- sotojuan 10y ago
  Are SE degrees common the US? I've only seen a couple of colleges that offer them and they weren't very good colleges or quite obscure. If the top 50~ universities offered a SE degree that included say, half of a CS degree with the other half being project/internship/"real world" stuff, would the job market still prefer CS?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

arekkas 10y ago

That's what you do in courses like "Introduction to Software Engineering" (first/second lecture), which usually are part of the first BSc CS semester. I don't disagree though that the title is misleading and the content quite disappointing and it wouldn't make a semester-long course because that list is covered in 10 minutes and it's nowhere near academia.

catnaroek 10y ago
I knew what to expect from the title. An actual computer scientist wouldn't be clueless enough to suggest (s)he can teach everything about computer science. Instead he would probably say how (s)he would teach something in his(er) narrow field of specialization - algorithms, databases, operating systems, compilers, whatever.

empath75 10y ago

It's not even software engineering, it's just basic troubleshooting skills. You could teach automotive repair or plumbing the same way, probably. I'd like to see a course taught in that that doesn't necessarily focus on computers, because those skills are tremendously applicable in pretty much every field.