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YC: Happy to cut people off over SOPA support. YC: Can't bring itself to even censure a billionaire who only works with them "part-time" for supporting actual

by bonaldi 10y ago

YC: Happy to cut people off over SOPA support. YC: Can't bring itself to even censure a billionaire who only works with them "part-time" for supporting actual hatred and sexual abuse. I await this thread filling up with "but how you can be tolerant if you don't tolerate intolerance?!" and other Phil-101 Do You Sees

ilyanep 10y ago
For what it's worth, the former was YC under pg and the latter is YC under Sam Altman. Maybe the two disagree about how things should be done?
- nicklovescode 10y ago
  https://twitter.com/paulg https://twitter.com/paulg https://twitter.com/sama https://twitter.com/sama If you look at their respective Tweets they seem to agree.
Analemma_ 10y ago
Might as well just copy-paste my comment from yesterday: "Taking the high road like this is only possible when it's not your neck on the chopping block. Thiel thinks giving women the right to vote was a mistake; Trump thinks all Mexicans and Muslims are violent madmen who should be barred from entering the United States. Hacker News can gregariously see past these faults because they're not in the crosshairs, but if Shanley Kane were a YC partner and saying "all men support rape culture, even if indirectly", there's no friggin way this comment section would be so sanguine."
- qntty 10y ago
  Wow, I initially agreed with sama, but this makes me realize how much of a hypocrite I am.
- postcarnival 10y ago
  > Trump thinks all Mexicans and Muslims are violent madmen who should be barred from entering the United States. ok honestly this is just outright wrong. you're just reciting false talking points from your liberal tv when you clearly haven't actually taken the time to listen to what Trump actually said. He never once called all Mexicans rapists yet you say he did. He never once said he wants to ban ALL Muslims from entering the US yet you did. For your information, the FBI notified congress and local governments that they currently are not confident that they can properly vet all incoming refugees. If the FBI is saying that, how on Earth can you claim it's wrong for Trump to call for a temporary stop until the FBI says it has a handle on it?
  - jlebar 10y ago
    > He never once called all Mexicans rapists OK, that's correct as far as I can tell. He didn't say "all Mexicans are rapists". You might still want to reflect on how what he did say was nonetheless offensive, not to mention factually incorrect. However, > He never once said he wants to ban ALL Muslims from entering the US this is plainly false. From his website: "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on" https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-... It's clear that he's not asking for a permanent ban. The parent poster did not say "permanent ban". It's still clearly a "ban" by the plain meaning of the word. If you're going to defend Trump, at least read what he puts out on his own website. kthx.
misterbowfinger 10y ago
I mean, I see the difficulty. Ostensibly, Peter Thiel has a lot of value to the tech community. SOPA does not. But.... this post does censure Peter Thiel. sama is completely disavowing Thiel's support of Trump. Maybe I don't understand what "censure" means though, if you meant something else.
- bonaldi 10y ago
  No, the post censures _Trump_. The strongest it gets against Thiel is "I can't understand [his support]". That's pretty weak sauce, and also isn't an official YC position. YC needs to distance itself from this donation and this support.
gjolund 10y ago
Now Trump = actual hatred. I don't support trump, but the hyperbole is getting exhausting.
- mejari 10y ago
  I encourage you to watch one of his recent rallies. It is not hyperbole.
  - tedajax 10y ago
    Seriously I feel like I'm taking crazy pills on HN the way people are apologizing for Trump in this thread. This is a man that has sexually assaulted women and actively campaigned on kicking out all the "others". Trump is not worthy of defense.
    - gjolund 10y ago
      Allegedly assaulted women.
      - mejari 10y ago
        Can you say "allegedly" when he himself admits to it?
        gjolund 10y ago
        Then why hasn't he been indicted?
        mejari 10y ago
        Because no one has pressed charges? I don't see how that's relevant. People can be guilty of things they haven't been proven to do in a court of law. I'm not saying he should be thrown in jail without due process, I'm pointing out that he himself has admitted to committing sexual assault, so it seems wrong to have a caveat of "allegedly".
gkoberger 10y ago
There's a degree of separation you're missing. SOPA is a specific belief, Trump is a person who has many beliefs. Person -> SOPA Person -> Trump -> Sexism/Racism/etc Thiel doesn't support Trump because he's racist/etc, he does it in spite of that. That doesn't make Thiel right, however it is an important distinction. If Thiel said or did anything racist/sexist/etc, he'd be out of YC. It's a slippery slope to start firing people because someone they support supports something you don't like. After all, Clinton supports SOPA, and Sam just endorsed her.
- mejari 10y ago
  >Thiel doesn't support Trump because he's racist/etc, he does it in spite of that. How do you know that?
  - joncalhoun 10y ago
    I believe his point was that you don't know until Thiel actually makes the racist comments himself, so you can't infer that he does.
    - mejari 10y ago
      You also can't infer that he doesn't, which is what the commentor I replied to did.
  - ebola1717 10y ago
    Palantir is under investigation for racist hiring practices, so there's pretty good reason to think he supports Trump because of them.
  - gkoberger 10y ago
    Maybe he's a closet racist, who knows. But I think that's a dismissive assumption. Here's a great article: http://theweek.com/articles/638051/why-does-peter-thiel-support-donald-trump http://theweek.com/articles/638051/why-does-peter-thiel-supp... Some bullet points: * He believes we've stagnated (see http://blog.samaltman.com/trump) * He sees a unique opportunity to buy into politics at the highest level for a mere $1.25MM * He likes being on CNN and on stage. He's famous, but not politics-famous. * He found a way to get Republicans to cheer for the phrase "I'm gay" Again, doesn't justify him... but potentially explains him. At the end of the day, we shouldn't be surprised that a guy who's famous for asking "What's one thing you believe that no one else does?" is supporting the most contrarian candidate we've ever seen.
chubot 10y ago
I think you are overstating the case. Thiel didn't support Trump's hatred and sexual abuse. Presumably he said "I'm proud to be gay" at the republican convention precisely to put those issues aside. (Apparently he was the first person to do this, which shouldn't be underestimated.) Thiel supports Trump for his economic policies, which seems utterly bizarre to me, but I don't see any double standard in terms of YC's behavior.
- int_19h 10y ago
  He didn't oppose them, either. On the other hand, he did endorse Trump. If you endorse someone, without pointing out what you believe to be their flaws, when you know those flaws (and, really, I don't think Thiel could claim excuse by ignorance here), you implicitly support those flaws.
colmvp 10y ago
I highly doubt that Thiel supports sexual abuse anymore than I think all my friends who are going to vote for Clinton support foreign interventionism, the need to regulate video games like narcotics, etc.
- plandis 10y ago
  It's not a big step to think he supports sexual abuse. He has already made it clear that he doesn't respect women enough to think they should have the right to vote.

by bonaldi 10y ago

ilyanep 10y ago

For what it's worth, the former was YC under pg and the latter is YC under Sam Altman. Maybe the two disagree about how things should be done?

nicklovescode 10y ago
https://twitter.com/paulg https://twitter.com/paulg https://twitter.com/sama https://twitter.com/sama If you look at their respective Tweets they seem to agree.

Analemma_ 10y ago

Might as well just copy-paste my comment from yesterday: "Taking the high road like this is only possible when it's not your neck on the chopping block. Thiel thinks giving women the right to vote was a mistake; Trump thinks all Mexicans and Muslims are violent madmen who should be barred from entering the United States. Hacker News can gregariously see past these faults because they're not in the crosshairs, but if Shanley Kane were a YC partner and saying "all men support rape culture, even if indirectly", there's no friggin way this comment section would be so sanguine."

qntty 10y ago
Wow, I initially agreed with sama, but this makes me realize how much of a hypocrite I am.
postcarnival 10y ago
> Trump thinks all Mexicans and Muslims are violent madmen who should be barred from entering the United States. ok honestly this is just outright wrong. you're just reciting false talking points from your liberal tv when you clearly haven't actually taken the time to listen to what Trump actually said. He never once called all Mexicans rapists yet you say he did. He never once said he wants to ban ALL Muslims from entering the US yet you did. For your information, the FBI notified congress and local governments that they currently are not confident that they can properly vet all incoming refugees. If the FBI is saying that, how on Earth can you claim it's wrong for Trump to call for a temporary stop until the FBI says it has a handle on it?
- jlebar 10y ago
  > He never once called all Mexicans rapists OK, that's correct as far as I can tell. He didn't say "all Mexicans are rapists". You might still want to reflect on how what he did say was nonetheless offensive, not to mention factually incorrect. However, > He never once said he wants to ban ALL Muslims from entering the US this is plainly false. From his website: "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on" https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-... It's clear that he's not asking for a permanent ban. The parent poster did not say "permanent ban". It's still clearly a "ban" by the plain meaning of the word. If you're going to defend Trump, at least read what he puts out on his own website. kthx.

misterbowfinger 10y ago

I mean, I see the difficulty. Ostensibly, Peter Thiel has a lot of value to the tech community. SOPA does not. But.... this post does censure Peter Thiel. sama is completely disavowing Thiel's support of Trump. Maybe I don't understand what "censure" means though, if you meant something else.

bonaldi 10y ago
No, the post censures _Trump_. The strongest it gets against Thiel is "I can't understand [his support]". That's pretty weak sauce, and also isn't an official YC position. YC needs to distance itself from this donation and this support.

gjolund 10y ago

Now Trump = actual hatred. I don't support trump, but the hyperbole is getting exhausting.

mejari 10y ago
I encourage you to watch one of his recent rallies. It is not hyperbole.
- tedajax 10y ago
  Seriously I feel like I'm taking crazy pills on HN the way people are apologizing for Trump in this thread. This is a man that has sexually assaulted women and actively campaigned on kicking out all the "others". Trump is not worthy of defense.
  - gjolund 10y ago
    Allegedly assaulted women.
    - mejari 10y ago
      Can you say "allegedly" when he himself admits to it?
      - gjolund 10y ago
        Then why hasn't he been indicted?
        mejari 10y ago
        Because no one has pressed charges? I don't see how that's relevant. People can be guilty of things they haven't been proven to do in a court of law. I'm not saying he should be thrown in jail without due process, I'm pointing out that he himself has admitted to committing sexual assault, so it seems wrong to have a caveat of "allegedly".

gkoberger 10y ago

There's a degree of separation you're missing. SOPA is a specific belief, Trump is a person who has many beliefs. Person -> SOPA Person -> Trump -> Sexism/Racism/etc Thiel doesn't support Trump because he's racist/etc, he does it in spite of that. That doesn't make Thiel right, however it is an important distinction. If Thiel said or did anything racist/sexist/etc, he'd be out of YC. It's a slippery slope to start firing people because someone they support supports something you don't like. After all, Clinton supports SOPA, and Sam just endorsed her.

mejari 10y ago
>Thiel doesn't support Trump because he's racist/etc, he does it in spite of that. How do you know that?
- joncalhoun 10y ago
  I believe his point was that you don't know until Thiel actually makes the racist comments himself, so you can't infer that he does.
  - mejari 10y ago
    You also can't infer that he doesn't, which is what the commentor I replied to did.
- ebola1717 10y ago
  Palantir is under investigation for racist hiring practices, so there's pretty good reason to think he supports Trump because of them.
- gkoberger 10y ago
  Maybe he's a closet racist, who knows. But I think that's a dismissive assumption. Here's a great article: http://theweek.com/articles/638051/why-does-peter-thiel-support-donald-trump http://theweek.com/articles/638051/why-does-peter-thiel-supp... Some bullet points: * He believes we've stagnated (see http://blog.samaltman.com/trump) * He sees a unique opportunity to buy into politics at the highest level for a mere $1.25MM * He likes being on CNN and on stage. He's famous, but not politics-famous. * He found a way to get Republicans to cheer for the phrase "I'm gay" Again, doesn't justify him... but potentially explains him. At the end of the day, we shouldn't be surprised that a guy who's famous for asking "What's one thing you believe that no one else does?" is supporting the most contrarian candidate we've ever seen.

chubot 10y ago

I think you are overstating the case. Thiel didn't support Trump's hatred and sexual abuse. Presumably he said "I'm proud to be gay" at the republican convention precisely to put those issues aside. (Apparently he was the first person to do this, which shouldn't be underestimated.) Thiel supports Trump for his economic policies, which seems utterly bizarre to me, but I don't see any double standard in terms of YC's behavior.

int_19h 10y ago
He didn't oppose them, either. On the other hand, he did endorse Trump. If you endorse someone, without pointing out what you believe to be their flaws, when you know those flaws (and, really, I don't think Thiel could claim excuse by ignorance here), you implicitly support those flaws.

colmvp 10y ago

I highly doubt that Thiel supports sexual abuse anymore than I think all my friends who are going to vote for Clinton support foreign interventionism, the need to regulate video games like narcotics, etc.

plandis 10y ago
It's not a big step to think he supports sexual abuse. He has already made it clear that he doesn't respect women enough to think they should have the right to vote.