6 ms·

> Get off your high horse, Thiel is not going to be destroyed if YC distances itself from him This isn't just about Thiel. It's about everyone else too. If you

by maratd 10y ago

> Get off your high horse, Thiel is not going to be destroyed if YC distances itself from him This isn't just about Thiel. It's about everyone else too. If you create those sorts of standards, they'll apply to everyone. How would you like it if your boss read your comment and then decided to fire you as a result? That's the kind of society you're creating. > So you're perfectly fine tolerating intolerance but you can't tolerate the intolerance of intolerance? Yes. Living in a liberal and free society means tolerating views you find repugnant.

aiig 10y ago
> Living in a liberal and free society means tolerating views you find repugnant. Not if they call me a "faggot" on the street.
- maratd 10y ago
  > Not if they call me a "faggot" on the street. Even then. Be an activist, go out and vote, fight for yourself, but don't attack others because they said something you didn't like.
  - splawn 10y ago
    ...but is it reeeeally "freedom" if I am not free to attack others because they said something I didn't like? (Yes...Im being facetious... discussions centered around "freedom" are meaningless because of how subjective the term is.)
  - aiig 10y ago
    > Even then. How about you try getting chased out of a subway station after midnight getting called a "faggot" and we'll talk. And people say that the SF tech class is out of touch.
    - FeepingCreature 10y ago
      How about you try getting uninvited from a conference getting called a "bigot" for supporting the wrong politician? I hear it feels great. Really makes you consider the other side's arguments dispassionately and clearly.
      - aiig 10y ago
        I'm so glad that you equate me fearing for my safety the same as you getting kicked out of your tech conference. You were so victimized I'm sorry.
        FeepingCreature 10y ago
        Not a race.
    - vsl 10y ago
      Surely you do grasp the slight difference between words and being chased? FWIW, I think there's a difference between repugnant opinions and insults, so "faggot" is not a good example, but you're twisting OP's words dishonestly.
      - aiig 10y ago
        Definitely see that. Though as we've seen recently, there are a lot of people who say, e.g., in the flower shop / bakery trope, "I don't have a problem with gay people, but my religion prohibits me from serving them." In such a case, do you really need an epithet to read hate? Do you really need to hear the N word to know that people are racist? It's, at best, a very privileged (and at worst, an entirely naive) POV to suggest that you do.
  - ScottBurson 10y ago
    Tolerating their views, yes. Tolerating violence or the threat of violence, no. To call someone "faggot" is indeed to threaten violence. The word originally meant "burning stick"; that's why a lit cigarette is sometimes called a "fag". By calling someone "faggot", one is saying they should be burned alive.
    - flukus 10y ago
      Faggot hasn't had that connotation since around the same time that gay meant happy.
      - aiig 10y ago
        How enlightening this discussion is.
    - grzm 10y ago
      Etymology is really interesting. And the meaning of words can change and new meanings can be associated over time. The word computer dates back to the 17th century referring to a person who calculates.[0] I don't think this is the meaning most people intend when using the word computer today. I'm not condoning the use of hateful language or threats. I just find your example problematic. [0]: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=computer http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=computer
masklinn 10y ago
> This isn't just about Thiel. It is specifically and precisely about Thiel. As others have noted, YC has distanced itself from relationships for political reasons in the past. > How would you like it if your boss read your comment and then decided to fire you as a result? That's the kind of society you're creating. Yeah except no, see there are two issues with your assertions: 1. Thiel is not employed by YC and not in a position of weakness or dependency. 2. I live in a country where you can't just tell employees to get fucked without providing a very good reason. My boss being on record firing me for my comments would net me a few years worth of income. > Yes. Living in a liberal and free society means tolerating views you find repugnant. But not that other people can find them intolerable? Only repugnant views are worth expressing and defending? That's an… interesting point of view, and one with which I emphatically disagree.
- maratd 10y ago
  > It is specifically and precisely about Thiel. No, it isn't. As your mentality takes root, there is nothing stopping others from doing it to absolutely everyone. > I live in a country where you can't just tell employees to get fucked You live in a country where more and more people aren't employees at all. > Only repugnant views are worth expressing and defending? Whatever views you want to express, feel free to express them. However, only repugnant views need to be tolerated by definition. If I say the sky is blue, nobody is going to persecute me for that. However, if I say something that isn't popular or is repugnant, it is at that point that I would need to be tolerated. That's the definition of tolerance. Withstanding something you don't like.
- elif 10y ago
  regarding #2, if you are American, you live in a STATE, not COUNTRY where that is your legal protection. Those of us in Louisiana, Georgia, Florida or Rhode Island can be fired for literally no reason. http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2001/01/art1full.pdf http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2001/01/art1full.pdf
- leshow 10y ago
  > It is specifically and precisely about Thiel. As others have noted, YC has distanced itself from relationships for political reasons in the past. No. The same rules should apply to anyone, regardless on income. Thiel has the same right to express his icky views as you do, without fear of losing his job or partnership.

by maratd 10y ago

aiig 10y ago

> Living in a liberal and free society means tolerating views you find repugnant. Not if they call me a "faggot" on the street.

maratd 10y ago
> Not if they call me a "faggot" on the street. Even then. Be an activist, go out and vote, fight for yourself, but don't attack others because they said something you didn't like.
- splawn 10y ago
  ...but is it reeeeally "freedom" if I am not free to attack others because they said something I didn't like? (Yes...Im being facetious... discussions centered around "freedom" are meaningless because of how subjective the term is.)
- aiig 10y ago
  > Even then. How about you try getting chased out of a subway station after midnight getting called a "faggot" and we'll talk. And people say that the SF tech class is out of touch.
  - FeepingCreature 10y ago
    How about you try getting uninvited from a conference getting called a "bigot" for supporting the wrong politician? I hear it feels great. Really makes you consider the other side's arguments dispassionately and clearly.
    - aiig 10y ago
      I'm so glad that you equate me fearing for my safety the same as you getting kicked out of your tech conference. You were so victimized I'm sorry.
      - FeepingCreature 10y ago
        Not a race.
  - vsl 10y ago
    Surely you do grasp the slight difference between words and being chased? FWIW, I think there's a difference between repugnant opinions and insults, so "faggot" is not a good example, but you're twisting OP's words dishonestly.
    - aiig 10y ago
      Definitely see that. Though as we've seen recently, there are a lot of people who say, e.g., in the flower shop / bakery trope, "I don't have a problem with gay people, but my religion prohibits me from serving them." In such a case, do you really need an epithet to read hate? Do you really need to hear the N word to know that people are racist? It's, at best, a very privileged (and at worst, an entirely naive) POV to suggest that you do.
- ScottBurson 10y ago
  Tolerating their views, yes. Tolerating violence or the threat of violence, no. To call someone "faggot" is indeed to threaten violence. The word originally meant "burning stick"; that's why a lit cigarette is sometimes called a "fag". By calling someone "faggot", one is saying they should be burned alive.
  - flukus 10y ago
    Faggot hasn't had that connotation since around the same time that gay meant happy.
    - aiig 10y ago
      How enlightening this discussion is.
  - grzm 10y ago
    Etymology is really interesting. And the meaning of words can change and new meanings can be associated over time. The word computer dates back to the 17th century referring to a person who calculates.[0] I don't think this is the meaning most people intend when using the word computer today. I'm not condoning the use of hateful language or threats. I just find your example problematic. [0]: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=computer http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=computer

masklinn 10y ago

> This isn't just about Thiel. It is specifically and precisely about Thiel. As others have noted, YC has distanced itself from relationships for political reasons in the past. > How would you like it if your boss read your comment and then decided to fire you as a result? That's the kind of society you're creating. Yeah except no, see there are two issues with your assertions: 1. Thiel is not employed by YC and not in a position of weakness or dependency. 2. I live in a country where you can't just tell employees to get fucked without providing a very good reason. My boss being on record firing me for my comments would net me a few years worth of income. > Yes. Living in a liberal and free society means tolerating views you find repugnant. But not that other people can find them intolerable? Only repugnant views are worth expressing and defending? That's an… interesting point of view, and one with which I emphatically disagree.

maratd 10y ago
> It is specifically and precisely about Thiel. No, it isn't. As your mentality takes root, there is nothing stopping others from doing it to absolutely everyone. > I live in a country where you can't just tell employees to get fucked You live in a country where more and more people aren't employees at all. > Only repugnant views are worth expressing and defending? Whatever views you want to express, feel free to express them. However, only repugnant views need to be tolerated by definition. If I say the sky is blue, nobody is going to persecute me for that. However, if I say something that isn't popular or is repugnant, it is at that point that I would need to be tolerated. That's the definition of tolerance. Withstanding something you don't like.
elif 10y ago
regarding #2, if you are American, you live in a STATE, not COUNTRY where that is your legal protection. Those of us in Louisiana, Georgia, Florida or Rhode Island can be fired for literally no reason. http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2001/01/art1full.pdf http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2001/01/art1full.pdf
leshow 10y ago
> It is specifically and precisely about Thiel. As others have noted, YC has distanced itself from relationships for political reasons in the past. No. The same rules should apply to anyone, regardless on income. Thiel has the same right to express his icky views as you do, without fear of losing his job or partnership.