7 ms·

I am getting so damn sick of all of the corruption we're seeing in governments all around the world, including the US/UK. Makes me want to vote for Trump and t

by DougN7 10y ago

I am getting so damn sick of all of the corruption we're seeing in governments all around the world, including the US/UK. Makes me want to vote for Trump and take the whole crooked system down (unfortunately, that would cause a LOT of pain for good everyday people).

pavlov 10y ago
Yeah, the best way to cure a flu is to shoot yourself in the head.
- DougN7 10y ago
  Hey, it would work! But you're right - it's an irrational response to a very frustrating situation of feeling powerless to fix things that are so obviously wrong.
- tomp 10y ago
  Hillary => no change. Trump => change. Positive or negative? Who knows...
  - DougN7 10y ago
    I personally think Clinton will be worse than Obama or Bush when it comes to any issue involving ethics.
  - pavlov 10y ago
    What do you mean, "who knows"? Seriously, I have no idea how you can listen to anything Trump says and come away with the idea that he represents positive change. Granted, most of Trump's output is not even properly formed sentences, so maybe he's doing a malformed data denial-of-service attack on voters' senses?
    - daveloyall 10y ago
      That's an excellent way to describe it. Most of his verbal quirks appear to be designed to get around various filters.
    - freehunter 10y ago
      The general idea is Trump will be so negative that everyone will swing so far away from that brand of politics that even Hillary Clinton will be toxic to support. That everyone will wake up and see that xenophobia isn't a joke, our foreign policy isn't as productive as it could be, and that we've been wrong all along. If Clinton gets elected, nothing will change. If Trump gets elected, the hope is that it will dip negative for a few months, he gets impeached and removed from office, and at the next election we vote in Jill Stein or something.
      - pavlov 10y ago
        "We've been wrong all along" -- does a nation ever just wake up like that, except perhaps Japan after Hiroshima? The Weimar Republic was broken in many ways, and many Germans essentially voted against it in the 1933 elections... That example of "creative destruction of a democracy using its own tools" didn't work out great.
        freehunter 10y ago
        Australia had a mass shooting with 35 people dead in the mid 90s and basically the very next day they all handed over their guns and went almost completely gun-free. One example of a nation deciding overnight that the way they've done things in the past was not the way they wanted to continue.
    - tomp 10y ago
      He seems to be interested more in internal issues. Less wars abroad and de-escalation of tensions with Russia. He also seems to be quite anti-globalization, anti-TPP etc. Slapping Wall St banks would be cherry on top. In any case a change of "elites" (if not economical, at least political) would be welcome. Probably won't be less corruption, but different corruption instead. Re: Trump's speeches - mostly non-sensical, yes, but at least he's not pretending to be truthful. Personally, I don't have any trust in what Hillary says either - even though her lies are much more sophisticated and eloquent.
      - pavlov 10y ago
        He seems to be interested more in internal issues. It seems extremely generous to characterize Trump as being interested in anything at all except himself. All accounts suggest that he doesn't read. On his private plane he watches his own TV appearances. He has put his name on a hundred products, but he's not an entrepreneur and doesn't care at all about developing the actual products. Trump claims to be an expert on taxes, at least... But his former accountant Jack Mitnick says he did all the work, and when Trump visited once a year, his wife was actually asking more questions than Trump himself. Really the best-case scenario for a Trump presidency is that his quantum-sized attention span moves to something else and he leaves the United States to run itself, like he did with the Trump University. That means Vice President Mike Pence would be the effective president, supported by a Republican Congress... And you can look at Pence's track record to see whose interests he represents: ultraconservative fundamentalist Christian Republicans. Pence is as much part of the establishment as Clinton. Is that really the change America needs? Trump's speeches - mostly non-sensical, yes, but at least he's not pretending to be truthful. What do you mean by that? He is definitely pretending to tell the truth. For example, since last week he has been saying that the election is rigged against him and there will be widespread vote fraud. There is not a shred of evidence of this. Republicans all over the country are actively countering the notion that the election is somehow being rigged. Yet Trump persists. That's not a harmless white lie -- no candidate has questioned the legitimacy of US elections since before the Civil War.
      - Brakenshire 10y ago
        > Less wars abroad and de-escalation of tensions with Russia. Pretty certain Trump called for US troops to be used in both Syria and Libya. He's also called for an escalation of bombing of ISIS, and supported torture. And he's made intemperate remarks about reacting to provocation - Russian planes shot down for flying over US ships, Iranian ships shot at if the crew make rude gestures. I would say it's at least arguable to say there will be fewer wars under Trump. Personally I find it quite difficult to follow that line of argument. I'd expect Clinton to be more hawkish than Obama, but Obama has been one of the US Presidents most keen on diplomacy and de-escalation for decades.
kllrnohj 10y ago
But Trump is just as crooked if not even more crooked. He isn't going to change anything.
- phatfish 10y ago
  Our current crop of "leaders" are content to play a game of chicken, pushing the limit further and further to see how much we will stand. Trump is nuts enough to knock the whole house of cards over. I have sympathy with where Doug is coming from, let's just get it over and done with already.
  - daveloyall 10y ago
    Over three hundred million people in this country, there are LOTS that would be happy to knock over this BS house of cards. But that candidate has decided to take the low road. And I mean LOW.
wvenable 10y ago
Trump is just a different kind of corruption. Voting in a millionaire business man from a rich family and many years in the media isn't really the populist choice.
grandalf 10y ago
A vote for any third party candidate is a bigger statement, and maximizes your voter power even in a non swing-state.
- not_kurt_godel 10y ago
  A vote for third-party doesn't maximize your voter power, it diminishes it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
  - YPCrumble 10y ago
    Does your link discuss that if a third party candidate gets 5% of the vote they will receive federal funding next election? If so how can they claim a vote for a third party diminishes voter power?
    - dlp211 10y ago
      Tell me where the reform party is today? The major parties don't even take federal funding because it's a joke. In a First Past the Post voting system like the one in America, a vote for a third-party is, and always will be a vote against your preferences. Rank-choice is a far superior system (though it has its own downsides as well), but that isn't what we have in America. The lesser of two evils is still the better of two options. You want "better" candidates, get involved in party politics and vote in the primaries.
      - freehunter 10y ago
        >The major parties don't even take federal funding because it's a joke. And I don't collect welfare because it's such a small paycheck compared to my salary. But for people who could really use that money, it's a huge help.
  - wnoise 10y ago
    In the short term, i.e. for this election, yes. In the longer term, it is a signal to the parties that they are leaving votes on the table, that maybe they could pick up by altering which policies they support. It really depends how you weight this election vs others coming up. But if you're in, say, California, your vote for President will not swing the state at all -- it's locked in for Hillary. If (and it's a big if) some other party is closer to your preferred policies, feel free to vote for them without a trace of guilt about making your side weaker for this election.
cb18 10y ago
unfortunately, that would cause a LOT of pain for good everyday people Consider that it is the crooked system that has led you to believe that. See this, newly released, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuJGHuIkzY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuJGHuIkzY shocking stuff.
- notahacker 10y ago
  I consider the unedited content of Trump's speeches to be pretty good evidence of his intent to cause a lot of pain for everyday people.
  - ryanx435 10y ago
    I consider the unedited content of Trump's speeches to be pretty good evidence of his intent to make america great again.
microtherion 10y ago
That would be the Trump who called for Edward Snowden to be executed? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4DjrBC4K-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4DjrBC4K-Q
khattam 10y ago
>unfortunately, that would cause a LOT of pain for good everyday people Yeah, so many libtards would be triggered... it's hardly worth it.

by DougN7 10y ago

pavlov 10y ago

Yeah, the best way to cure a flu is to shoot yourself in the head.

DougN7 10y ago
Hey, it would work! But you're right - it's an irrational response to a very frustrating situation of feeling powerless to fix things that are so obviously wrong.
tomp 10y ago
Hillary => no change. Trump => change. Positive or negative? Who knows...
- DougN7 10y ago
  I personally think Clinton will be worse than Obama or Bush when it comes to any issue involving ethics.
- pavlov 10y ago
  What do you mean, "who knows"? Seriously, I have no idea how you can listen to anything Trump says and come away with the idea that he represents positive change. Granted, most of Trump's output is not even properly formed sentences, so maybe he's doing a malformed data denial-of-service attack on voters' senses?
  - daveloyall 10y ago
    That's an excellent way to describe it. Most of his verbal quirks appear to be designed to get around various filters.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    The general idea is Trump will be so negative that everyone will swing so far away from that brand of politics that even Hillary Clinton will be toxic to support. That everyone will wake up and see that xenophobia isn't a joke, our foreign policy isn't as productive as it could be, and that we've been wrong all along. If Clinton gets elected, nothing will change. If Trump gets elected, the hope is that it will dip negative for a few months, he gets impeached and removed from office, and at the next election we vote in Jill Stein or something.
    - pavlov 10y ago
      "We've been wrong all along" -- does a nation ever just wake up like that, except perhaps Japan after Hiroshima? The Weimar Republic was broken in many ways, and many Germans essentially voted against it in the 1933 elections... That example of "creative destruction of a democracy using its own tools" didn't work out great.
      - freehunter 10y ago
        Australia had a mass shooting with 35 people dead in the mid 90s and basically the very next day they all handed over their guns and went almost completely gun-free. One example of a nation deciding overnight that the way they've done things in the past was not the way they wanted to continue.
  - tomp 10y ago
    He seems to be interested more in internal issues. Less wars abroad and de-escalation of tensions with Russia. He also seems to be quite anti-globalization, anti-TPP etc. Slapping Wall St banks would be cherry on top. In any case a change of "elites" (if not economical, at least political) would be welcome. Probably won't be less corruption, but different corruption instead. Re: Trump's speeches - mostly non-sensical, yes, but at least he's not pretending to be truthful. Personally, I don't have any trust in what Hillary says either - even though her lies are much more sophisticated and eloquent.
    - pavlov 10y ago
      He seems to be interested more in internal issues. It seems extremely generous to characterize Trump as being interested in anything at all except himself. All accounts suggest that he doesn't read. On his private plane he watches his own TV appearances. He has put his name on a hundred products, but he's not an entrepreneur and doesn't care at all about developing the actual products. Trump claims to be an expert on taxes, at least... But his former accountant Jack Mitnick says he did all the work, and when Trump visited once a year, his wife was actually asking more questions than Trump himself. Really the best-case scenario for a Trump presidency is that his quantum-sized attention span moves to something else and he leaves the United States to run itself, like he did with the Trump University. That means Vice President Mike Pence would be the effective president, supported by a Republican Congress... And you can look at Pence's track record to see whose interests he represents: ultraconservative fundamentalist Christian Republicans. Pence is as much part of the establishment as Clinton. Is that really the change America needs? Trump's speeches - mostly non-sensical, yes, but at least he's not pretending to be truthful. What do you mean by that? He is definitely pretending to tell the truth. For example, since last week he has been saying that the election is rigged against him and there will be widespread vote fraud. There is not a shred of evidence of this. Republicans all over the country are actively countering the notion that the election is somehow being rigged. Yet Trump persists. That's not a harmless white lie -- no candidate has questioned the legitimacy of US elections since before the Civil War.
    - Brakenshire 10y ago
      > Less wars abroad and de-escalation of tensions with Russia. Pretty certain Trump called for US troops to be used in both Syria and Libya. He's also called for an escalation of bombing of ISIS, and supported torture. And he's made intemperate remarks about reacting to provocation - Russian planes shot down for flying over US ships, Iranian ships shot at if the crew make rude gestures. I would say it's at least arguable to say there will be fewer wars under Trump. Personally I find it quite difficult to follow that line of argument. I'd expect Clinton to be more hawkish than Obama, but Obama has been one of the US Presidents most keen on diplomacy and de-escalation for decades.

kllrnohj 10y ago

But Trump is just as crooked if not even more crooked. He isn't going to change anything.

phatfish 10y ago
Our current crop of "leaders" are content to play a game of chicken, pushing the limit further and further to see how much we will stand. Trump is nuts enough to knock the whole house of cards over. I have sympathy with where Doug is coming from, let's just get it over and done with already.
- daveloyall 10y ago
  Over three hundred million people in this country, there are LOTS that would be happy to knock over this BS house of cards. But that candidate has decided to take the low road. And I mean LOW.

wvenable 10y ago

Trump is just a different kind of corruption. Voting in a millionaire business man from a rich family and many years in the media isn't really the populist choice.

grandalf 10y ago

A vote for any third party candidate is a bigger statement, and maximizes your voter power even in a non swing-state.

not_kurt_godel 10y ago
A vote for third-party doesn't maximize your voter power, it diminishes it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
- YPCrumble 10y ago
  Does your link discuss that if a third party candidate gets 5% of the vote they will receive federal funding next election? If so how can they claim a vote for a third party diminishes voter power?
  - dlp211 10y ago
    Tell me where the reform party is today? The major parties don't even take federal funding because it's a joke. In a First Past the Post voting system like the one in America, a vote for a third-party is, and always will be a vote against your preferences. Rank-choice is a far superior system (though it has its own downsides as well), but that isn't what we have in America. The lesser of two evils is still the better of two options. You want "better" candidates, get involved in party politics and vote in the primaries.
    - freehunter 10y ago
      >The major parties don't even take federal funding because it's a joke. And I don't collect welfare because it's such a small paycheck compared to my salary. But for people who could really use that money, it's a huge help.
- wnoise 10y ago
  In the short term, i.e. for this election, yes. In the longer term, it is a signal to the parties that they are leaving votes on the table, that maybe they could pick up by altering which policies they support. It really depends how you weight this election vs others coming up. But if you're in, say, California, your vote for President will not swing the state at all -- it's locked in for Hillary. If (and it's a big if) some other party is closer to your preferred policies, feel free to vote for them without a trace of guilt about making your side weaker for this election.

cb18 10y ago

unfortunately, that would cause a LOT of pain for good everyday people Consider that it is the crooked system that has led you to believe that. See this, newly released, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuJGHuIkzY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuJGHuIkzY shocking stuff.

notahacker 10y ago
I consider the unedited content of Trump's speeches to be pretty good evidence of his intent to cause a lot of pain for everyday people.
- ryanx435 10y ago
  I consider the unedited content of Trump's speeches to be pretty good evidence of his intent to make america great again.

microtherion 10y ago

That would be the Trump who called for Edward Snowden to be executed? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4DjrBC4K-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4DjrBC4K-Q

khattam 10y ago

>unfortunately, that would cause a LOT of pain for good everyday people Yeah, so many libtards would be triggered... it's hardly worth it.