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I've only skimmed this but there seems to be a focus on customizing and plugins from the get go. I think it's worth getting to know Vim "as is" before doing suc
by gbrown_ 10y ago
I've only skimmed this but there seems to be a focus on customizing and plugins from the get go. I think it's worth getting to know Vim "as is" before doing such things. Indeed there certainly some things that aren't the most useful or obvious but it's good to understand their original intent.
Not to crap on the author of this but I'd recommend Drew Neil's Practical Vim over this (and pretty much every other Vim book).
https://pragprog.com/book/dnvim/practical-vim https://pragprog.com/book/dnvim/practical-vim
- exDM69 10y agoI kind of agree but vim's defaults are awful. Tim Pope has put together a good set of non-opinionated defaults which don't change key bindings or customize it otherwise [0]. I have a very similar vanilla setup with no plugins apart from syntax highlighting for some languages not included by default. [0] https://github.com/tpope/vim-sensible https://github.com/tpope/vim-sensible
- allengeorge 10y agoThat may be, but it's tough to use a customized vim on your local machine, and then switch to a stock install on a server somewhere, no?
- exDM69 10y agoCopy over one file (.vimrc) and you're done. If you use plugins, then copy them over with git or whatever. And my setup is very conservative so it's mild annoyance at worst. The defaults are just bad, I recommend using vim-sensible or doing your own lean and mean vim config.
- test1235 10y agoAs someone who only uses Vim casually, what's an example of a bad default? For someone who is new to Vim, they wouldn't know if the controls are bad, or tough to learn e.g. using jkl; instead of arrow keys.
- JoshTriplett 10y ago> As someone who only uses Vim casually, what's an example of a bad default? By default, vim doesn't enable filetype detection or syntax highlighting, so even though it can easily recognize a source file's language, it doesn't.
- t4nkd 10y agoAnecdotally, this is exactly the sort of thing I have never needed while using vim on a server. Just let me modify content in the word hole...
- JoshTriplett 10y agovim isn't the "on a server" editor for me, it's the "everything" editor. I like that it works the same way everywhere, but I primarily use it to edit files that do have recognized filetypes. (As an aside, for me the main value of syntax highlighting isn't the normal case, but rather the case where the syntax highlighting emphasizes a problem, such as an unterminated string or other typo.)
- Annatar 10y agoI like that it works the same way everywhere, but I primarily use it to edit files that do have recognized filetypes. UNIX doesn't care about filetypes, since the paradigm is working with binary streams of data, and it's implemented in a way that users don't need or have to care either. File types are a concept from MS-DOS, popularized by Windows, and a major hindrance to a UNIX user's workflow.
- wyclif 10y agoOr just clone your dotfiles from a repository.
- yodsanklai 10y agoI agree. Personally, I prefer getting used to the defaults than going through the pain of customization. I tried it, but it meant additional syncing between my machines, fighting with plugins, and it's not always possible to customize vi mode in some environments (like Eclipse or Sublime). Overall, I think vim is great for simple and fast editing, but as soon as I need to work on a multiple files projects, I switch to something else, possibly using vi mode if there's one (and even there, I wonder if I shouldn't embrace mac os shortcuts once for all).
- dimal 10y agoDevelopers spend 99.9% of their time working in their local environment, so this isn't very important for them. If you're a sysadmin, then it makes sense, but then you're probably already proficient enough with vim or some other editor that works on your server.
- AceStar 10y agoI don't think it's very hard to switch to stock vim, when the keybindings remain the same. Most of the customisations commonly used are either cosmetic (syntax highlighting, brace matching, search-as-you-type, etc) or don't require much adjustment (delete through all text, etc).
- justinmk 10y agoThat's why Neovim carefully implemented[1] most of the defaults (and a few others) from sensible.vim. [1] https://github.com/neovim/neovim/issues/2676 https://github.com/neovim/neovim/issues/2676
- Annatar 10y agoI kind of agree but vim's defaults are awful. I wonder whether that is because of vim compiled defaults or the way people who package vim think things should be, or both? I get so angry every time I log into my newly created Linux account and fire up vi, wanting to get some work done, only to find out that it's been aliased to vim, and there is that horrid syntax highlighting turned on. Unbelievably irritating, and frustrating to no end. Ironically, on AmigaOS where vim comes from, there are no customizations and no syntax highlighting - vim just works there as one would expect vi to work on UNIX.
- rubbsdecvik 10y agoI can't recommend this book enough. As a long-time Vim user, I still learned a few things after reading this book. Drew Neil is a pretty awesome person too.
- clifanatic 10y agoI always thought that if I were ever to write a book on vim, I'd start with a thorough introduction to ed, followed by a thorough introduction to ex, finally followed by a thorough tutorial on all the features of plain-old vanilla vi, only then to introduce the vim parts and macros and graphics and things.
- jeremiahwv 10y agoI would read that.
- joemi 10y agoI can't tell if your comment is sarcastic or not, but I, too, would love to read that.
- clifanatic 10y agoNo, not sarcastic at all - I just didn't think anybody besides me would be crazy enough to want to read such a detailed treatment of an old text editor. Guess I'd better get started writing ;)
- shabbyrobe 10y agoThis might be of interest! "Actually using ed": https://sanctum.geek.nz/arabesque/actually-using-ed/ https://sanctum.geek.nz/arabesque/actually-using-ed/
- brians 10y agoI'd buy that. Hey, No Starch!
- baldfat 10y agoI agree and then I got a little mad. My version 1 is outdated and the updated ebook is a full price cost for me. Why are some ebook companies charging full price for revisions of books purchased?
- patrickdavey 10y agoYip, practical vim is absolutely excellent, I'd highly recommend it. One other link I haven't seen mentioned here is the user-manual[0] or typing (:h user-manual), and of course typing `vimtutor` at the shell... [0] http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/usr_toc.html http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/usr_toc.html
- joemi 10y agoVimtutor was all it took to get me both hooked and proficient enough to not feel hopeless. That said, I get why it's not the same for everyone.
- cholantesh 10y agoDrew Neill's vimcasts.org is also great.
- a3n 10y ago> I think it's worth getting to know Vim "as is" before [customizing]. For Vim and much else, I've found it worth reacquainting with "as is," after years and decades of customization.
- ases 10y agoTo perhaps go against the grain a little here, I appreciate a focus on customisation from the start. I am beginning to use Vim more, mostly because I was introduced to the keybindings with Vim emulation from other apps, and I appreciate how it works. I had previously attempted to learn Vim through the normal ways, but it just was impossible; by default, Vim for me is barely readable and none of the included colour schemes ever made it any better. Plus, of course, some of the other things like size of tabs, line numbers, often even syntax highlighting. But finding out how to deal with plugins, themes, settings, etc. is difficult when you aren't already introduced to Vim, precisely because most people make the assumption that you've learned Vim "as is" already. I think some concession has to be made to modernity. Vim is very old and "as is" it often just doesn't function very well for everyday use. Grinding through that until you know it well enough to be given the knowledge of how to make it nicer to use isn't worth it to most people. It certainly wasn't to me.
- nicolashahn 10y agoI disagree. Vim is bare, cold, and strange when coming from a traditional editor, and I probably wouldn't have gotten involved if it were not for a friend who already have a useful .vim and .vimrc for me to use as a starting point. He got me up and running with a Vundle, syntax highlighting for all my languages, autocomplete, and various settings that should have been default with stock vim. Though vimtutor was also very useful for getting used to the standard controls. Edit: Forgot the most important thing, the setting that lets you use the mouse: set mouse=a. After I discovered this I knew I was never going back to Sublime.
- AceStar 10y agoI avoided vim for years after being introduced to vi at university, not realising vim could be customised to be much more comfortable and modern feeling.
- antipasta 10y agoI started out trying to go plugin free since I wanted to avoid bloat, but eventually gave in once I found plugins that eased bottlenecks in my workflow with a barebones vim. Though I love the plugins I use now, I do agree that it makes sense to be fairly comfortable in a plugin-free vim before installing a ton of them. I wrote a blog about this topic a month or so back: http://blog.bugreplay.com/post/149712686514/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-vim http://blog.bugreplay.com/post/149712686514/how-i-learned-to...
- return0 10y agoThe benefit of learning the 'default' vim becomes obvious when u have to log in to a foreign system.
- pacomerh 10y agoNice, "practical VIM" is how I learned VIM. Very easy to understand given the examples.
- edoloughlin 10y ago> there seems to be a focus on customizing and plugins from the get go This is understandable. Coming from Emacs, I need an equivalent of projectile to stay productive while learning.