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Jesus, there is so much entitlement in this post I don't even know where to start. No, you don't NEED an Apple iPhone, and a TV with Netflix, and Amazon, and a

Jesus, there is so much entitlement in this post I don't even know where to start. No, you don't NEED an Apple iPhone, and a TV with Netflix, and Amazon, and a Gant sweater. There are thousands of families that are surviving just fine without any of that. We have survived for centuries without external entertainment, and suddenly, you NEED this so you don't get bored? Why not have a conversation with your wife. Sit down at the dinner table and have a conversation with your family. Go for a hike out in nature. There are ways to entertain yourself without modern technology. If you want to keep up with the Jones's, yeah, you're going to have to make more, or sacrifice your life in other ways. You want to buy a house in your 30s? Figure out how to increase your value so you can get paid more, or start saving your money. Pensions are long gone. They have IRAs. If you're worried about retirement, set money aside right now. Of course, this may mean you can't be the most recent iPhone that was released. Tradeoffs. Everything has tradeoffs. There is nothing guaranteed in life but death and taxes. Keep that in mind, and figure out what's most important to you. Welcome to the real world.

mfoy_ 10y ago
I agree that GP is deluded and entitled. Not to absolve him of his own responsibility for his decisions, but there are very strong forces out there proactively pushing this mindset on people. Companies spend insane amounts of money trying to convince more people that they "need" their products. It's not even just ads and commercials that are guilty of this. Most mainstream media assumes the "American Dream" happens to involve a lot of material possessions, and proceeds accordingly. It's in the little things, and it's everywhere.
- reverend_gonzo 10y ago
  Absolutely. Society itself is caught up in material possessions, and hell, we are bombarded by so much marketing, that we believe we need all these new things. I get caught up in it myself, but at some point in their lives, people need to take responsibility for themselves. The original poster wants everything and expects to be given everything. Whats worse is he thinks previous generations had it so easy, and can't realize the sacrifices they had to make. Owning a house was one of the things that everybody aspired to, which meant they set aside money every month, and maybe after ten or twenty years of solid savings, they could afford the down payment, and buy a house. OP is thinking of pre-2008 days, where clown and his cat was flipping houses, but that was not a normal market, and most of them lost it anyways. He need to figure out what his priorities are: Does he want to own his own home, save for retirement, or live the latest, greatest gadgets? If he wants everything, there's a simple solution. Find how to make more money than the people he hangs out with.
- muse900 10y ago
  I was going for the example actually as you are saying: "here are very strong forces out there proactively pushing this mindset on people." As a human being I personally own land in my homecountry and the best way to spend my holidays on is going to my farm and enjoying nature to the maximum without carying about money or anything. I am very conservative with my wage and what I do with it, as my wife is. I was just trying to bring up a point about how the way of life has changed, am not self entitled to anything, I've worked from construction in New York to gardner to software developer.
amorphid 10y ago
Entitled or not, it sucks to know that our American parents and grandparents could buy homes, and we cannot. You could be nicer about "yeah it sucks, I hear you, but all is not lost..."
- reverend_gonzo 10y ago
  I am in the same age range as the poster. Life is tough. Get over it. You want nicer things? It has to come from somewhere. And our parents did not have it easier. I would say if anything, they had it harder, and didn't get caught up in all the bullshit commericalism that is marketed to us today. This is anecdote, but still, my parents worked 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 20 years, with one single vacation, so they could raise me. You know what they have to show for it? Social security that pays about $800 a month and barely covers their mortgage, and a pension that pays $40 a month (yes, $40). That pension was from working a full-time job for about 20 years. And yet, they manage just fine. So, no, our ancestors did not have it better. They just don't whine about it, and did whatever they had to do to survive.
  - sundaeofshock 10y ago
    I am in the same generation as your parents (49) and can say for sure that my generation had a lot easier then your generation. We had free or low-cost college, real wages were higher, there were plenty of real (non-gig) jobs, people could afford to buy housing on a middle-class income, health insurance covered more, and the overall cost of living was lower. Anecdotally, your parents may have had it rougher then most of our generation; but according to the data our generation had a hell of a lot easier time then your (and my son's) generation does. Oh, and -- like ever generation -- we whined just as much and were also call entitled. Go back and read about all the delightful things written about Generation X. We were whiney, lazy, self-entitled, and also told that life was tough and we needed to get over it. Christ, if you hadn't have called our your age in your post, I would have guessed you were my age or older.
    - reverend_gonzo 10y ago
      People can absolutely still afford to buy houses on middle-class salaries. They just can't do it in San Francisco or Manhattan or the nicest neighborhoods in Chicago. They may also have to hold off buying a new phone every year. They may have to not sign up for all 500 cable channels along with Spotify and Netflix. But there are lots of people living just fine, with families in their own homes, on middle class families. But, sure, some things are harder. And other things are easier. It's much easier to learn skills on Coursera/Udacity/etc without having to pay for college. It's much easier to move around the country. For people who gay, lesbian, or trans, I would say life is probably a lot easier than it was in the 80s and 90s. The gig economy provides options for making side cash. I'm sure every generation is whiny. But within the generation, everyone is going through the same things. So, live the best you can, and stop trying to compare yourself to everyone else, let alone those in other generations.
SolaceQuantum 10y ago
I will note that those things have value,especially dependent on where you are and what context you exist in socially. There are conversations about tv shows, actors, whatever new show is on Netflix that you will be isolated from without access. There are friends and family with apple products that don't work well with a cheaper phone, such as the messaging system on iPhone. It becomes an obstacle to social activities, which is necessary. Similarly, wearing expensive clothing may become a basis of not looking like a slob in front of your friends or family. There's nothing wrong with that, either. It all depends on context. Trying to ignore all these things as not necessary also ignores the context in which they exist in. It feels dismissive to call that entitlement when one doesn't even know the circumstances in which someone else lives.
- ericd 10y ago
  Everyone who has given up those things has dealt with those pressures. They're certainly not insurmountable, and the payoff is not being in debt with a bunch of stuff that has no value once it leaves the store.
  - SolaceQuantum 10y ago
    I actually don't know if that is true. I am from a very different background (Chinese) and I don't really suffer the need to buy fashionable new clothes or get the newest phone. As long as I interact with and love my friends and family it is okay. However, in an American university I feel often left out or ignored because I cannot be as passionate about actors, movies, or similar media as I don't watch films or television out of habit. I feel this can often deprive me of being able to network with cohorts. That's pretty significant.
    - ericd 10y ago
      Fair, but there are cheap ways to watch TV, and in college, you typically don't have to pay for any of that yourself. Sorry, I shouldn't have lumped those all together, the expensive consumption habits are more what I was talking about.
- 10y ago
Ntrails 10y ago
>Pensions are long gone. They have IRAs. If you're worried about retirement, set money aside right now. Pensions haven't gone anywhere, unless you mean Defined Benefit ones where the company assumes all the risks and guarentees a salary from retirement - in which case yes those are basically gone everywhere except the public sector.
blahblah3 10y ago
The desire to "keep up with the Jones's" is one of the strongest human motivators in my opinion and very hard to fight. Most people want to feel respected or on par with their social circle. And even if one can resist the urge, there is often pressure from others (wife is a big one)

mfoy_ 10y ago

I agree that GP is deluded and entitled. Not to absolve him of his own responsibility for his decisions, but there are very strong forces out there proactively pushing this mindset on people. Companies spend insane amounts of money trying to convince more people that they "need" their products. It's not even just ads and commercials that are guilty of this. Most mainstream media assumes the "American Dream" happens to involve a lot of material possessions, and proceeds accordingly. It's in the little things, and it's everywhere.

reverend_gonzo 10y ago
Absolutely. Society itself is caught up in material possessions, and hell, we are bombarded by so much marketing, that we believe we need all these new things. I get caught up in it myself, but at some point in their lives, people need to take responsibility for themselves. The original poster wants everything and expects to be given everything. Whats worse is he thinks previous generations had it so easy, and can't realize the sacrifices they had to make. Owning a house was one of the things that everybody aspired to, which meant they set aside money every month, and maybe after ten or twenty years of solid savings, they could afford the down payment, and buy a house. OP is thinking of pre-2008 days, where clown and his cat was flipping houses, but that was not a normal market, and most of them lost it anyways. He need to figure out what his priorities are: Does he want to own his own home, save for retirement, or live the latest, greatest gadgets? If he wants everything, there's a simple solution. Find how to make more money than the people he hangs out with.
muse900 10y ago
I was going for the example actually as you are saying: "here are very strong forces out there proactively pushing this mindset on people." As a human being I personally own land in my homecountry and the best way to spend my holidays on is going to my farm and enjoying nature to the maximum without carying about money or anything. I am very conservative with my wage and what I do with it, as my wife is. I was just trying to bring up a point about how the way of life has changed, am not self entitled to anything, I've worked from construction in New York to gardner to software developer.

amorphid 10y ago

Entitled or not, it sucks to know that our American parents and grandparents could buy homes, and we cannot. You could be nicer about "yeah it sucks, I hear you, but all is not lost..."

reverend_gonzo 10y ago
I am in the same age range as the poster. Life is tough. Get over it. You want nicer things? It has to come from somewhere. And our parents did not have it easier. I would say if anything, they had it harder, and didn't get caught up in all the bullshit commericalism that is marketed to us today. This is anecdote, but still, my parents worked 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 20 years, with one single vacation, so they could raise me. You know what they have to show for it? Social security that pays about $800 a month and barely covers their mortgage, and a pension that pays $40 a month (yes, $40). That pension was from working a full-time job for about 20 years. And yet, they manage just fine. So, no, our ancestors did not have it better. They just don't whine about it, and did whatever they had to do to survive.
- sundaeofshock 10y ago
  I am in the same generation as your parents (49) and can say for sure that my generation had a lot easier then your generation. We had free or low-cost college, real wages were higher, there were plenty of real (non-gig) jobs, people could afford to buy housing on a middle-class income, health insurance covered more, and the overall cost of living was lower. Anecdotally, your parents may have had it rougher then most of our generation; but according to the data our generation had a hell of a lot easier time then your (and my son's) generation does. Oh, and -- like ever generation -- we whined just as much and were also call entitled. Go back and read about all the delightful things written about Generation X. We were whiney, lazy, self-entitled, and also told that life was tough and we needed to get over it. Christ, if you hadn't have called our your age in your post, I would have guessed you were my age or older.
  - reverend_gonzo 10y ago
    People can absolutely still afford to buy houses on middle-class salaries. They just can't do it in San Francisco or Manhattan or the nicest neighborhoods in Chicago. They may also have to hold off buying a new phone every year. They may have to not sign up for all 500 cable channels along with Spotify and Netflix. But there are lots of people living just fine, with families in their own homes, on middle class families. But, sure, some things are harder. And other things are easier. It's much easier to learn skills on Coursera/Udacity/etc without having to pay for college. It's much easier to move around the country. For people who gay, lesbian, or trans, I would say life is probably a lot easier than it was in the 80s and 90s. The gig economy provides options for making side cash. I'm sure every generation is whiny. But within the generation, everyone is going through the same things. So, live the best you can, and stop trying to compare yourself to everyone else, let alone those in other generations.

SolaceQuantum 10y ago

I will note that those things have value,especially dependent on where you are and what context you exist in socially. There are conversations about tv shows, actors, whatever new show is on Netflix that you will be isolated from without access. There are friends and family with apple products that don't work well with a cheaper phone, such as the messaging system on iPhone. It becomes an obstacle to social activities, which is necessary. Similarly, wearing expensive clothing may become a basis of not looking like a slob in front of your friends or family. There's nothing wrong with that, either. It all depends on context. Trying to ignore all these things as not necessary also ignores the context in which they exist in. It feels dismissive to call that entitlement when one doesn't even know the circumstances in which someone else lives.

ericd 10y ago
Everyone who has given up those things has dealt with those pressures. They're certainly not insurmountable, and the payoff is not being in debt with a bunch of stuff that has no value once it leaves the store.
- SolaceQuantum 10y ago
  I actually don't know if that is true. I am from a very different background (Chinese) and I don't really suffer the need to buy fashionable new clothes or get the newest phone. As long as I interact with and love my friends and family it is okay. However, in an American university I feel often left out or ignored because I cannot be as passionate about actors, movies, or similar media as I don't watch films or television out of habit. I feel this can often deprive me of being able to network with cohorts. That's pretty significant.
  - ericd 10y ago
    Fair, but there are cheap ways to watch TV, and in college, you typically don't have to pay for any of that yourself. Sorry, I shouldn't have lumped those all together, the expensive consumption habits are more what I was talking about.
10y ago

Ntrails 10y ago

>Pensions are long gone. They have IRAs. If you're worried about retirement, set money aside right now. Pensions haven't gone anywhere, unless you mean Defined Benefit ones where the company assumes all the risks and guarentees a salary from retirement - in which case yes those are basically gone everywhere except the public sector.

blahblah3 10y ago

The desire to "keep up with the Jones's" is one of the strongest human motivators in my opinion and very hard to fight. Most people want to feel respected or on par with their social circle. And even if one can resist the urge, there is often pressure from others (wife is a big one)