4 ms·

Have you ever gone through the process of being so mentally ill you can't work? It's quite difficult and not something one undergoes just because they want free

Have you ever gone through the process of being so mentally ill you can't work? It's quite difficult and not something one undergoes just because they want free money. It's dehumanizing and degrading to have to list all these ways you literally can't function like a mentally healthy human being. I know people who frankly have to choose between that and homelessness. To imply there's nothing wrong with these people and in fact the problem lies with the idea of mental disorders existing expresses to me a perhaps lack of exposure or understanding of people who are sick.

contingencies 10y ago
Hey I'm not claiming nobody's sick, just that if that many people have problems functioning in society then society's probably a big part of the problem.
- SolaceQuantum 10y ago
  Your rhetoric implies an allegation of sickness rather than them actually being sick. I'm not going to deny that society may have contributing factors such as stigma or how society deals with traumatized individuals, but to imply that that many people being that sick is to be prescribed to an issue with the definition of being mentally ill strikes me as strange.
  - brookside 10y ago
    Depression really is more akin to a symptom than a disease. There aren't even clearly defined biomarkers that are associated with this cluster of symptoms we call depression.
- istjohn 10y ago
  In fact, you claimed that many of the people diagnosed are actually fine. Please revise or walk back your statement if you want, but don't deny the plain meaning of your words.
  - contingencies 10y ago
    I implied that perhaps their particular mental configurations, different as they are, should perhaps not be considered abnormal and in fact this is a false stigma of society. I did not imply any value judgement about their mental configurations.
    - istjohn 10y ago
      Your attitude, were it to be adopted as conventional wisdom, would deprive huge numbers of people of medical treatment that dramatically improves their lives. Most DSM definitions stipulate something similar to: "There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, academic or occupational functioning". If people seek help for such conditions, they should have their concerns taken seriously and be provided the necessary treatment. It's not helpful to simply suggest perhaps it's natural for some people to be morbidly depressed or disconnected from reality.
      - contingencies 10y ago
        Not once did I suggest that people were not ill, merely that a society's consideration of a high proportion of its people as ill is a symptom of the society more than the individuals. The baseline assumption in your polemic that people should center their lives around "social, academic or occupational functioning" is actually highly offensive to some, including myself.
      - Grishnakh 10y ago
        It is perfectly natural. Try taking some social animal like a bonobo, and sticking it in a horrible cage in solitary confinement, and maybe poke it with a cattle prod now and then for extra measure. Do you think it's going to be a perfectly happy little ape? No, it's going to become morbidly depressed or disconnected from reality. There's nothing wrong with the bonobo; the problem is with his environment. The bonobo doesn't need anti-depressants, he needs to be put back into his healthy bonobo society in the forest and not kept in a cage and zapped with a cattle prod. Most mental health treatments are just band-aids, just like dosing a tortured ape on anti-depressants so he doesn't have to deal with the suffering he's being forced to endure.
slfnflctd 10y ago
> It's dehumanizing and degrading to have to list all these ways you literally can't function I couldn't even imagine going through such a process when I was at my worst. It wouldn't have happened unless someone physically forced me to do it. I actually would have ended up 'choosing' to be homeless (or dead) if it wasn't for the care of friends and family.

contingencies 10y ago

Hey I'm not claiming nobody's sick, just that if that many people have problems functioning in society then society's probably a big part of the problem.

SolaceQuantum 10y ago
Your rhetoric implies an allegation of sickness rather than them actually being sick. I'm not going to deny that society may have contributing factors such as stigma or how society deals with traumatized individuals, but to imply that that many people being that sick is to be prescribed to an issue with the definition of being mentally ill strikes me as strange.
- brookside 10y ago
  Depression really is more akin to a symptom than a disease. There aren't even clearly defined biomarkers that are associated with this cluster of symptoms we call depression.
istjohn 10y ago
In fact, you claimed that many of the people diagnosed are actually fine. Please revise or walk back your statement if you want, but don't deny the plain meaning of your words.
- contingencies 10y ago
  I implied that perhaps their particular mental configurations, different as they are, should perhaps not be considered abnormal and in fact this is a false stigma of society. I did not imply any value judgement about their mental configurations.
  - istjohn 10y ago
    Your attitude, were it to be adopted as conventional wisdom, would deprive huge numbers of people of medical treatment that dramatically improves their lives. Most DSM definitions stipulate something similar to: "There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, academic or occupational functioning". If people seek help for such conditions, they should have their concerns taken seriously and be provided the necessary treatment. It's not helpful to simply suggest perhaps it's natural for some people to be morbidly depressed or disconnected from reality.
    - contingencies 10y ago
      Not once did I suggest that people were not ill, merely that a society's consideration of a high proportion of its people as ill is a symptom of the society more than the individuals. The baseline assumption in your polemic that people should center their lives around "social, academic or occupational functioning" is actually highly offensive to some, including myself.
    - Grishnakh 10y ago
      It is perfectly natural. Try taking some social animal like a bonobo, and sticking it in a horrible cage in solitary confinement, and maybe poke it with a cattle prod now and then for extra measure. Do you think it's going to be a perfectly happy little ape? No, it's going to become morbidly depressed or disconnected from reality. There's nothing wrong with the bonobo; the problem is with his environment. The bonobo doesn't need anti-depressants, he needs to be put back into his healthy bonobo society in the forest and not kept in a cage and zapped with a cattle prod. Most mental health treatments are just band-aids, just like dosing a tortured ape on anti-depressants so he doesn't have to deal with the suffering he's being forced to endure.

slfnflctd 10y ago

> It's dehumanizing and degrading to have to list all these ways you literally can't function I couldn't even imagine going through such a process when I was at my worst. It wouldn't have happened unless someone physically forced me to do it. I actually would have ended up 'choosing' to be homeless (or dead) if it wasn't for the care of friends and family.