3 ms·

Would be nice if I didn't need the half the KDE desktop for it.

by creshal 10y ago

lmm 10y ago
What difference does that make? You don't have to run KDE (heck, I use it on windows). Yes its UI is a separate library from the specific program - any well-factored program will do the same, whether it exposes the separation or not.
- creshal 10y ago
  > What difference does that make? • It's more packages I need to download. Doubly annoying because 95% of the packages are just "thin wrapper around foo, because we're too hipster to use libraries directly like peasants". • It installs system-wide services I have to disable/mask just so other programs don't mistakenly use them because they think I run KDE and they have to integrate into it. • Oh wait, I can't disable some of these, because Krita itself needs them and now I need to figure out how to make them play nice with my desktop aaaaaarggghhhh
  - cash3wz 10y ago
    I agree with you for point 2 & 3, I also hated installing KDE apps for this exact reason. But I can't agree on the first one. I have not checked what these exact thin wrappers are, but most of the time thin wrappers are really useful for testing and switching to another library without being tangled in the old one. It pretty much follow the "D" (Dependency inversion principle) in the S.O.L.I.D. principles: "Depend upon Abstractions. Do not depend upon concretions.”. Again, I have not checked the KDE libs you talk about, so I'm assuming this is what these wrappers are used for. (Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_inversion_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_inversion_principle & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOLID_(object-oriented_design) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOLID_(object-oriented_design) )
    - witty_username 10y ago
      I think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonon_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonon_(software) is one such example.
  - lmm 10y ago
    > It's more packages I need to download. Doubly annoying because 95% of the packages are just "thin wrapper around foo, because we're too hipster to use libraries directly like peasants". "Number of packages" is not a very meaningful metric. The combined filesize isn't that large (not by the standards of an image editor anyway), and under any modern package manager installing a package with dependencies is no harder than installing one without. > It installs system-wide services I have to disable/mask just so other programs don't mistakenly use them because they think I run KDE and they have to integrate into it. Really? KDE tends to be a well-behaved crossplatform citizen IME (unlike Gnome) and not rely on anything system-wide. (There was some horribly ill-advised semantic nonsense in KDE 4, but I don't think it ever affected Krita).
baldfat 10y ago
That is right there with RPM vs DEB debates and "RPM dependency hell." 75 MB appimage download then! https://krita.org/en/item/krita-3-0-released/ https://krita.org/en/item/krita-3-0-released/
Crespyl 10y ago
The kdelibs situation has improved a lot in the last couple of years. The team has worked hard to split out the frameworks and libraries from the desktop and apps themselves, so now you only need like 1/5 the KDE desktop. It's worth taking another look if that was something that put you off in the past.

Would be nice if I didn't need the half the KDE desktop for it.

by creshal 10y ago

Would be nice if I didn't need the half the KDE desktop for it.

lmm 10y ago

What difference does that make? You don't have to run KDE (heck, I use it on windows). Yes its UI is a separate library from the specific program - any well-factored program will do the same, whether it exposes the separation or not.

creshal 10y ago
> What difference does that make? • It's more packages I need to download. Doubly annoying because 95% of the packages are just "thin wrapper around foo, because we're too hipster to use libraries directly like peasants". • It installs system-wide services I have to disable/mask just so other programs don't mistakenly use them because they think I run KDE and they have to integrate into it. • Oh wait, I can't disable some of these, because Krita itself needs them and now I need to figure out how to make them play nice with my desktop aaaaaarggghhhh
- cash3wz 10y ago
  I agree with you for point 2 & 3, I also hated installing KDE apps for this exact reason. But I can't agree on the first one. I have not checked what these exact thin wrappers are, but most of the time thin wrappers are really useful for testing and switching to another library without being tangled in the old one. It pretty much follow the "D" (Dependency inversion principle) in the S.O.L.I.D. principles: "Depend upon Abstractions. Do not depend upon concretions.”. Again, I have not checked the KDE libs you talk about, so I'm assuming this is what these wrappers are used for. (Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_inversion_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_inversion_principle & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOLID_(object-oriented_design) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOLID_(object-oriented_design) )
  - witty_username 10y ago
    I think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonon_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonon_(software) is one such example.
- lmm 10y ago
  > It's more packages I need to download. Doubly annoying because 95% of the packages are just "thin wrapper around foo, because we're too hipster to use libraries directly like peasants". "Number of packages" is not a very meaningful metric. The combined filesize isn't that large (not by the standards of an image editor anyway), and under any modern package manager installing a package with dependencies is no harder than installing one without. > It installs system-wide services I have to disable/mask just so other programs don't mistakenly use them because they think I run KDE and they have to integrate into it. Really? KDE tends to be a well-behaved crossplatform citizen IME (unlike Gnome) and not rely on anything system-wide. (There was some horribly ill-advised semantic nonsense in KDE 4, but I don't think it ever affected Krita).

baldfat 10y ago

That is right there with RPM vs DEB debates and "RPM dependency hell." 75 MB appimage download then! https://krita.org/en/item/krita-3-0-released/ https://krita.org/en/item/krita-3-0-released/

Crespyl 10y ago

The kdelibs situation has improved a lot in the last couple of years. The team has worked hard to split out the frameworks and libraries from the desktop and apps themselves, so now you only need like 1/5 the KDE desktop. It's worth taking another look if that was something that put you off in the past.