4 ms·

Tesla and Panasonic to Collaborate on Photovoltaic Cell

75 points by ot 10y ago

abalone 10y ago
Interesting.. why Buffalo? Are they getting tax incentives? There's no mention of partnering with U of Buffalo but there is a pretty major 10 year tax break for tech companies that do.[1] [1] https://startup.ny.gov/Business-Growth https://startup.ny.gov/Business-Growth
- adammunich 10y ago
  Former Buffalo native here. Short answer: yes. The city is in dire need of new economic activity.
- spqr0a1 10y ago
  They are getting $750 million of incentives. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Billion#Government_investigations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Billion#Government_inv... The project awarding the incentive is under state and federal investigations and at least one key official (Alain Kaloyeros) involved has been suspended without pay.
julianpye 10y ago
Panasonic suffered so much by its committee based product decisions that it had to leave the consumer space as its core business. The decision to let high-risk Tesla lead a Japanese electronic giants manufacturing power as visionaire is currently the most exciting cultural decision by an Asian corporation. Cultural because by doing so Tsuga-san (Panasonic's CEO and my former boss when he was in charge of DVD and Blu-Ray) left the corporation's 1000 year paternalistic consumer product plan (no joke) of the founder far behind.
- jl6 10y ago
  I think you are referring to the 250 year plan? Could you elaborate on how that looked in practice? I see a few PR pieces on the web but they don't go into any detail.
- m12k 10y ago
  Serious question: I've heard about these very, very, long term business plans made by Japanese companies before but I've no idea what they look like or why they make them. Do they seriously believe that any part of the plan further away than a few decades will have any resemblance to reality? Are founders and CEOs thought to be oracles of some kind? "2245: Our company will be first to market with a practical application of the latest breakthrough in particle physics, growing to become a leading provider of teleportation services for logistics and business travel"
  - anexprogrammer 10y ago
    What's remarkable is how little there is on the web, and how empty most of those are. I caught a programme that discussed these briefly a few months back, then followed with some googling. I found out almost nothing except Japan has a lot of old companies. As for the plans? That they're to balance short termism and identify long term trends to keep the company in existance. Could have got that much from guesswork. If I want to know more I think I'd have to learn Japanese. Presumably leads to things like Toyota's fuel cell ambitions, and zero carbon factories in 50 years.
- nihonde 10y ago
  Either it's "the most exciting cultural decision by an Asian corporation" or it's two companies grasping at straws on their way to the bottom. (I'm bearish on both. Does it show?)
jakozaur 10y ago
More on factory in Buffalo itself: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600770/10-breakthrough-technologies-2016-solarcitys-gigafactory/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600770/10-breakthrough-te...
Animats 10y ago
Solar City's big thing with their Buffalo factory was that they were going to make their own solar cells. Solar City bought Silevo for $200 million in 2014. Silevo supposedly had a "breakthrough technology"[1], which would allow Solar City to compete with cheap solar cells from China. That was the previous story. The new story that Solar City will now buy solar cells from Panasonic, but only if Tesla buys Solar City. Silevo is no longer mentioned. Does this mean the Silevo technology didn't work out? Or that Solar City's financial problems mean they can't afford to be in the solar cell business? Something big and negative happened that the press release isn't mentioning. [1] http://silevosolar.com/?cat=11 http://silevosolar.com/?cat=11
- Rafert 10y ago
  Afaik Tesla needs their money to ramp up production on cars, so it doesn't seem that strange to assume that Tesla will license said breakthrough tech to Panasonic so they can manufacture it.
  - dayaz36 10y ago
    How is licensing it going to save them money? They've already bought the technology and the manufacturing facility
    - nardi 10y ago
      It doesn't save them money in the long run. However, in the short run, it saves them a bunch of money, since they are simply promising to buy panels from Panasonic, and they don't have to pay up front for the machinery, labor, and raw materials to produce them. This is a big deal--many have been wondering where Tesla is going to get all of the cash from, and now they don't need quite so much cash.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
KaiserPro 10y ago
Its an interesting admission that their own solar tech isn't good enough.

75 points by ot 10y ago

Interesting.. why Buffalo? Are they getting tax incentives? There's no mention of partnering with U of Buffalo but there is a pretty major 10 year tax break for tech companies that do.[1] [1] https://startup.ny.gov/Business-Growth https://startup.ny.gov/Business-Growth

adammunich 10y ago
Former Buffalo native here. Short answer: yes. The city is in dire need of new economic activity.
spqr0a1 10y ago
They are getting $750 million of incentives. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Billion#Government_investigations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Billion#Government_inv... The project awarding the incentive is under state and federal investigations and at least one key official (Alain Kaloyeros) involved has been suspended without pay.

julianpye 10y ago

Panasonic suffered so much by its committee based product decisions that it had to leave the consumer space as its core business. The decision to let high-risk Tesla lead a Japanese electronic giants manufacturing power as visionaire is currently the most exciting cultural decision by an Asian corporation. Cultural because by doing so Tsuga-san (Panasonic's CEO and my former boss when he was in charge of DVD and Blu-Ray) left the corporation's 1000 year paternalistic consumer product plan (no joke) of the founder far behind.

jl6 10y ago
I think you are referring to the 250 year plan? Could you elaborate on how that looked in practice? I see a few PR pieces on the web but they don't go into any detail.
m12k 10y ago
Serious question: I've heard about these very, very, long term business plans made by Japanese companies before but I've no idea what they look like or why they make them. Do they seriously believe that any part of the plan further away than a few decades will have any resemblance to reality? Are founders and CEOs thought to be oracles of some kind? "2245: Our company will be first to market with a practical application of the latest breakthrough in particle physics, growing to become a leading provider of teleportation services for logistics and business travel"
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  What's remarkable is how little there is on the web, and how empty most of those are. I caught a programme that discussed these briefly a few months back, then followed with some googling. I found out almost nothing except Japan has a lot of old companies. As for the plans? That they're to balance short termism and identify long term trends to keep the company in existance. Could have got that much from guesswork. If I want to know more I think I'd have to learn Japanese. Presumably leads to things like Toyota's fuel cell ambitions, and zero carbon factories in 50 years.
nihonde 10y ago
Either it's "the most exciting cultural decision by an Asian corporation" or it's two companies grasping at straws on their way to the bottom. (I'm bearish on both. Does it show?)

jakozaur 10y ago

More on factory in Buffalo itself: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600770/10-breakthrough-technologies-2016-solarcitys-gigafactory/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600770/10-breakthrough-te...

Animats 10y ago

Solar City's big thing with their Buffalo factory was that they were going to make their own solar cells. Solar City bought Silevo for $200 million in 2014. Silevo supposedly had a "breakthrough technology"[1], which would allow Solar City to compete with cheap solar cells from China. That was the previous story. The new story that Solar City will now buy solar cells from Panasonic, but only if Tesla buys Solar City. Silevo is no longer mentioned. Does this mean the Silevo technology didn't work out? Or that Solar City's financial problems mean they can't afford to be in the solar cell business? Something big and negative happened that the press release isn't mentioning. [1] http://silevosolar.com/?cat=11 http://silevosolar.com/?cat=11

Rafert 10y ago
Afaik Tesla needs their money to ramp up production on cars, so it doesn't seem that strange to assume that Tesla will license said breakthrough tech to Panasonic so they can manufacture it.
- dayaz36 10y ago
  How is licensing it going to save them money? They've already bought the technology and the manufacturing facility
  - nardi 10y ago
    It doesn't save them money in the long run. However, in the short run, it saves them a bunch of money, since they are simply promising to buy panels from Panasonic, and they don't have to pay up front for the machinery, labor, and raw materials to produce them. This is a big deal--many have been wondering where Tesla is going to get all of the cash from, and now they don't need quite so much cash.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]

KaiserPro 10y ago

Its an interesting admission that their own solar tech isn't good enough.