5 ms·

I like your thoughtful reply and agree with you, but want to point out that you are drawing somewhat arbitrary lines here on what is fine and what is not fine i

by pen2l 10y ago

I like your thoughtful reply and agree with you, but want to point out that you are drawing somewhat arbitrary lines here on what is fine and what is not fine in supporting Trump. For example, wouldn't you agree that any of your cousins who support Trump -- the ones you are in good terms with now, if they had Thiel-money, they probably would have donated a million or two to him?

tptacek 10y ago
If I had a cousin who donated millions to Donald Trump, I assume we would not be on good terms afterwards. You've zeroed in on something implicit in my argument: yes, with escalating power in society comes escalating responsibility not to do harm. Another way to look at it is: any cousin of mine hooting and hollering about black folks and "too-ugly" assault victims is no friend of mine, either.
- pen2l 10y ago
  > You've zeroed in on something implicit in my argument: yes, with escalating power in society comes escalating responsibility not to do harm. So you're more a consequentialist than a deontologist, okay.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I'm very much not a consequentialist. Like I said, I'm Catholic. I'm about as deontological as you can get and still be a software developer.
    - pen2l 10y ago
      Well, you're at least somewhat consequentialist because you've just said you'll judge a person differently depending on what means and resources are available to them. You're okay with your cousin supporting Trump (and giving his campaign a paltry $20USD donation?) but you're not okay with them if they were richer and were giving the campaign a $2M donation. Where am I misunderstanding you?
      - tptacek 10y ago
        That someone with the means to donate $2MM necessarily has not only a better understanding of the harm they're doing, but also the responsibility to further their understanding. My hypothetical cousins might donate to Trump believing they're supporting a pro-life candidate, not realizing that Trump has probably paid for no small number of abortions himself. My nonexistent hypothetical billionaire cousin cannot claim to be ignorant to what Trump really is, especially if he's brought into the inner circle of the Trump campaign itself. Thiel knows Trump is a horrible person. He donated $1.25MM the day after Trump made national news for campaigning on the illegitimacy of the election itself, and for claiming that the women accusing him were too ugly to have been assault victims.
        SamReidHughes 10y ago
        What do you think Thiel's motivations are?
- sturgill 10y ago
  I'm struggling with understanding your position. It's okay for your cousins (or whomever) to be sympathetic to political leaders as long as they don't act on those sympathies? If I believe that Trump is the lesser of two evils, why is it inappropriate to donate my time and money to his campaign? And why should that support be held against me professionally while others support Hillary's campaign with impunity? "Hooting and hollering" at offensive speech is different than deciding Trump represents a better option than Hillary and defeating her is worth spending millions of dollars. And how should any of this be connected to one's professional opportunities? Hillary's a bully and a crook, but I'll maintain relationships with anyone who votes for her. Trump is a terrible human being and a clown, but likewise I'll maintain relationships with people who vote for him. People who laugh at "she's too ugly to assault" I already don't speak to... independent of their political leanings.

by pen2l 10y ago

tptacek 10y ago

If I had a cousin who donated millions to Donald Trump, I assume we would not be on good terms afterwards. You've zeroed in on something implicit in my argument: yes, with escalating power in society comes escalating responsibility not to do harm. Another way to look at it is: any cousin of mine hooting and hollering about black folks and "too-ugly" assault victims is no friend of mine, either.

pen2l 10y ago
> You've zeroed in on something implicit in my argument: yes, with escalating power in society comes escalating responsibility not to do harm. So you're more a consequentialist than a deontologist, okay.
- tptacek 10y ago
  I'm very much not a consequentialist. Like I said, I'm Catholic. I'm about as deontological as you can get and still be a software developer.
  - pen2l 10y ago
    Well, you're at least somewhat consequentialist because you've just said you'll judge a person differently depending on what means and resources are available to them. You're okay with your cousin supporting Trump (and giving his campaign a paltry $20USD donation?) but you're not okay with them if they were richer and were giving the campaign a $2M donation. Where am I misunderstanding you?
    - tptacek 10y ago
      That someone with the means to donate $2MM necessarily has not only a better understanding of the harm they're doing, but also the responsibility to further their understanding. My hypothetical cousins might donate to Trump believing they're supporting a pro-life candidate, not realizing that Trump has probably paid for no small number of abortions himself. My nonexistent hypothetical billionaire cousin cannot claim to be ignorant to what Trump really is, especially if he's brought into the inner circle of the Trump campaign itself. Thiel knows Trump is a horrible person. He donated $1.25MM the day after Trump made national news for campaigning on the illegitimacy of the election itself, and for claiming that the women accusing him were too ugly to have been assault victims.
      - SamReidHughes 10y ago
        What do you think Thiel's motivations are?
sturgill 10y ago
I'm struggling with understanding your position. It's okay for your cousins (or whomever) to be sympathetic to political leaders as long as they don't act on those sympathies? If I believe that Trump is the lesser of two evils, why is it inappropriate to donate my time and money to his campaign? And why should that support be held against me professionally while others support Hillary's campaign with impunity? "Hooting and hollering" at offensive speech is different than deciding Trump represents a better option than Hillary and defeating her is worth spending millions of dollars. And how should any of this be connected to one's professional opportunities? Hillary's a bully and a crook, but I'll maintain relationships with anyone who votes for her. Trump is a terrible human being and a clown, but likewise I'll maintain relationships with people who vote for him. People who laugh at "she's too ugly to assault" I already don't speak to... independent of their political leanings.