4 ms·

I'm not understanding what exactly you want. If you're saying Sam should come out and say he disagrees with Thiel, he's already said he finds Trump repugnant.

by brhsiao 10y ago

I'm not understanding what exactly you want. If you're saying Sam should come out and say he disagrees with Thiel, he's already said he finds Trump repugnant. Are you saying that in addition to this, he also has to say, "I now draw attention to the fact that by opposing Trump, I am hereby disagreeing with my partner who supports him"? Why? And could it possibly also be because YC has other people in it, and disavowing a partner of YC by himself would be acting irresponsibly toward his partners? If you're saying YC as an institution should disavow Thiel's actions, is every company expected to choose a political stance, then disavow any partners who act against it? For that matter, it's disingenuous of you to point to an individual's tweets denouncing Trump, then to the fact that his organization hasn't done the same, and call it a lack of moral courage. It's also disingenuous to suggest, as you do in your tweets where you warn women and Muslims against joining YC, that because one of their partners donated to Trump and spoke at his convention, YC as an institution is now somehow poisoned with the views typical of a Trump supporter. Presumably Thiel was added as a partner for the simple reason that he is a valuable source of advice for startups. He can still be one as a keynote speaker for Trump. Besides, most people who endorse candidates, even people who act as keynote speakers, don't agree completely with their candidate, which further weakens your argument. Finally, I sometimes read your tweets, and I noticed you tweeted https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/787756601281085440 https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/787756601281085440 to Paul Graham's wife. Your usual sense of humor becomes weirdly aggressive when you write about YC, like you really want to pick a fight. What's your problem with them?

idlewords 10y ago
I think that YC, in its official capacity, should disavow Thiel. I think it's morally incoherent for YC partners to declare Trump a national emergency and a threat to the republic while continuing to do business with one of his greatest backers, and not acknowledging the conflict. For whatever reason, YC has chosen to stay silent while one of its partners pours resources into a candidacy outside the bounds of normal political discourse in the US. This silence is very weird, especially considering the individual partners' alarmist comments about Trump. I don't think YC became poisoned with Thiel's views the moment he expressed them. They were poisoned by his views when they chose not to react in any way, and maintain their silence. I wonder what women, Muslims, veterans, etc. in this thread feel about the matter. To the point that Thiel doesn't completely endorse his candidate, I believe that argument is substantially weakened by his 1.25M donation coming after multiple accusations of sexual assault. Clearly Thiel is comfy enough in his support to disregard this, and the parade of horrors that preceded it. I accept that I may be starting to sound a bit nasty. I consider what is happening a display of spinelessness, and the arguments being marshaled in its defense disingenuous. It makes me angry.
- brhsiao 10y ago
  I understand where you're coming from, but you didn't address this point: > For that matter, it's disingenuous of you to point to an individual's tweets denouncing Trump, then to the fact that his organization hasn't done the same, and call it a lack of moral courage. YC has multiple partners, and for them to disavow Thiel as a whole would require them to conspire, behind Thiel's back, to reach an agreement on this. That seems iffy. Is it really not enough that Sam has individually come out against Trump? Is it really moral incoherence that he hasn't rallied his entire organization behind him on this? I do wonder whether female and Muslim YC founders ever receive advice from Thiel, and how they feel about it. But I suspect most accept that he's a smart guy, and that at the end of the day, they can part ways in disagreement but a few pieces of good advice richer. Or maybe not. I'd be interested in hearing about someone's experience here.
  - idlewords 10y ago
    I take your point that YC has some kind of governance structure, a bunch of partners, and it may not be feasible to publish a statement on company letterhead, figuratively speaking. What I'm after is some kind of statement from Altman or Graham about Thiel, his involvement in supporting Trump, and their (presumable) discomfort at having such person be a partner in YC. An acknowledgement of the situation, rather than the tacit silence we've had so far. What we have right now is Altman and Graham saying a Trump presidency would be disastrous, and not commenting at all about continuing to do business with one of Trump's key backers. That's weird.
jarcane 10y ago
It's disingenuous to suggest, as you do in your tweets where you warn women and Muslims against joining YC, that because one of their partners donated to Trump and spoke at his convention, YC as an institution is now somehow poisoned with the views typical of a Trump supporter. Presumably Thiel was added as a partner for the simple reason that he is a valuable source of advice for startups. This is answering the wrong question. The point as I took it of idlewords' warning is rather, if you are a woman, or a Muslim, do you really want to work with a company where you might be expected to deal with Thiel as a consultant? You say so yourself, as did sama and paulg: Thiel's role in YC is to advise startups who enter into the program. Were I a woman, I would be uncomfortable taking money from YC on the contingency that I would have to do business with someone who believes that my gender being given the right to vote undermines the entirety of democracy. Were I a Muslim or a Mexican, I would be uncomfortable taking money from an organization that might expect me to share business information with a man who has spent millions of his own money supporting a candidate who believes that people of my religion or race should be registered with the government and deported en masse. Indeed, why should I, or anyone, want to do business with someone who hates them? Who sees them as subhuman? Or, since I'm sure you're about to rush to equivocate on this, at least actively campaigns for, delegates for, and finances, a political machine that does so? idlewords' advice was, frankly, exactly right. If you are a Muslim, or a Mexican, or a woman, you should think very carefully about applying for YC, knowing that Peter Thiel is the kind of advisor you may be expected to cooperate with as a contingency of your funding.
- brhsiao 10y ago
  I always thought YC founders were allowed to choose which partners they wanted to work with. If not, you're right. Edit: Sam just posted https://twitter.com/sama/status/787794988855812096 https://twitter.com/sama/status/787794988855812096.

by brhsiao 10y ago

idlewords 10y ago

I think that YC, in its official capacity, should disavow Thiel. I think it's morally incoherent for YC partners to declare Trump a national emergency and a threat to the republic while continuing to do business with one of his greatest backers, and not acknowledging the conflict. For whatever reason, YC has chosen to stay silent while one of its partners pours resources into a candidacy outside the bounds of normal political discourse in the US. This silence is very weird, especially considering the individual partners' alarmist comments about Trump. I don't think YC became poisoned with Thiel's views the moment he expressed them. They were poisoned by his views when they chose not to react in any way, and maintain their silence. I wonder what women, Muslims, veterans, etc. in this thread feel about the matter. To the point that Thiel doesn't completely endorse his candidate, I believe that argument is substantially weakened by his 1.25M donation coming after multiple accusations of sexual assault. Clearly Thiel is comfy enough in his support to disregard this, and the parade of horrors that preceded it. I accept that I may be starting to sound a bit nasty. I consider what is happening a display of spinelessness, and the arguments being marshaled in its defense disingenuous. It makes me angry.

brhsiao 10y ago
I understand where you're coming from, but you didn't address this point: > For that matter, it's disingenuous of you to point to an individual's tweets denouncing Trump, then to the fact that his organization hasn't done the same, and call it a lack of moral courage. YC has multiple partners, and for them to disavow Thiel as a whole would require them to conspire, behind Thiel's back, to reach an agreement on this. That seems iffy. Is it really not enough that Sam has individually come out against Trump? Is it really moral incoherence that he hasn't rallied his entire organization behind him on this? I do wonder whether female and Muslim YC founders ever receive advice from Thiel, and how they feel about it. But I suspect most accept that he's a smart guy, and that at the end of the day, they can part ways in disagreement but a few pieces of good advice richer. Or maybe not. I'd be interested in hearing about someone's experience here.
- idlewords 10y ago
  I take your point that YC has some kind of governance structure, a bunch of partners, and it may not be feasible to publish a statement on company letterhead, figuratively speaking. What I'm after is some kind of statement from Altman or Graham about Thiel, his involvement in supporting Trump, and their (presumable) discomfort at having such person be a partner in YC. An acknowledgement of the situation, rather than the tacit silence we've had so far. What we have right now is Altman and Graham saying a Trump presidency would be disastrous, and not commenting at all about continuing to do business with one of Trump's key backers. That's weird.

jarcane 10y ago

It's disingenuous to suggest, as you do in your tweets where you warn women and Muslims against joining YC, that because one of their partners donated to Trump and spoke at his convention, YC as an institution is now somehow poisoned with the views typical of a Trump supporter. Presumably Thiel was added as a partner for the simple reason that he is a valuable source of advice for startups. This is answering the wrong question. The point as I took it of idlewords' warning is rather, if you are a woman, or a Muslim, do you really want to work with a company where you might be expected to deal with Thiel as a consultant? You say so yourself, as did sama and paulg: Thiel's role in YC is to advise startups who enter into the program. Were I a woman, I would be uncomfortable taking money from YC on the contingency that I would have to do business with someone who believes that my gender being given the right to vote undermines the entirety of democracy. Were I a Muslim or a Mexican, I would be uncomfortable taking money from an organization that might expect me to share business information with a man who has spent millions of his own money supporting a candidate who believes that people of my religion or race should be registered with the government and deported en masse. Indeed, why should I, or anyone, want to do business with someone who hates them? Who sees them as subhuman? Or, since I'm sure you're about to rush to equivocate on this, at least actively campaigns for, delegates for, and finances, a political machine that does so? idlewords' advice was, frankly, exactly right. If you are a Muslim, or a Mexican, or a woman, you should think very carefully about applying for YC, knowing that Peter Thiel is the kind of advisor you may be expected to cooperate with as a contingency of your funding.

brhsiao 10y ago
I always thought YC founders were allowed to choose which partners they wanted to work with. If not, you're right. Edit: Sam just posted https://twitter.com/sama/status/787794988855812096 https://twitter.com/sama/status/787794988855812096.