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Another false headline. "serverless"? Nope. A redis server must be running.

by dwills 10y ago

aleken 10y ago
I imagine an IPFS chat software could store it's necessary information in... IPFS. So why involve redis?
- kefka 10y ago
  Because IPFS only does distributed storage. It has no processing power or logic to handle data transformations. Now, one avenue to handle that is js-ipfs. In order to update things like IPNS records, you need the private key of the node you're trying to change. Interestingly enough, and machine with the pub/priv key can submit an IPNS change. So effectively, you could have a shared repo like Usenet, where everyone has the pub/priv key and pushes updates via js-ipfs. Although, I could imagine easily how that could get super-heavy. _________________________ Another idea I had, was to build something akin to AWS lambda, except using Tor Hidden Services, and Erlang. It would be effectively a private computation cloud. The reason for the HS is so each machine, regardless of their location, could always talk with each other, using Erlang's built--in networking support. (I am using non-standard applications of Tor Hidden Services - read more what I'm doing here: https://hackaday.io/project/12985-multisite-homeofficehackerspace-automation https://hackaday.io/project/12985-multisite-homeofficehacker... )
  - mirimir 10y ago
    That's very cool! Have you looked at OnionCat? I've managed a global LizardFS cluster on a PeerVPN network, overlayed on OnionCat IPv6. Latency is too high for erasure coding or XOR goals, but chunk-replication mode works reliably.
- daviddias 10y ago
  redis was mainly used to get pubsub for the first iteration (demonstrated in June), now (demonstrated in September) orbit uses IPFS pubsub (available in the go-ipfs implementation) for a complete distributed web application.
heliumcraft 10y ago
Isn't Redis used just for running the test suite?
- daviddias 10y ago
  It was just used for pubsub on the 1st iteration, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12721898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12721898
carolc 10y ago
Orbit used to use a Redis server for pubsub messaging but it's not anymore as IPFS has implemented a peer-to-peer pubsub. Totally serverless.
- fizzbatter 10y ago
  Are you familiar with IPFS pubsub? Would you be able to link some information about the implementation/usage? I'm quite surprised to hear what you said. I've been following multiple Github Issues on IPFS pubsub, and none of them (that i followed) announced success/etc. I thought it was still in the planning phase.
  - diggan 10y ago
    There is some prototype work done in master already (if you build go-ipfs from source). $ ipfs pubsub --help USAGE ipfs pubsub - An experimental publish-subscribe system on ipfs. SYNOPSIS ipfs pubsub DESCRIPTION ipfs pubsub allows you to publish messages to a given topic, and also to subscribe to new messages on a given topic. This is an experimental feature. It is not intended in its current state to be used in a production environment. To use, the daemon must be run with '--enable-pubsub-experiment'. SUBCOMMANDS ipfs pubsub ls - List subscribed topics by name. ipfs pubsub peers - List all peers we are currently pubsubbing with. ipfs pubsub pub <topic> <data>... - Publish a message to a given pubsub topic. ipfs pubsub sub <topic> - Subscribe to messages on a given topic. Use 'ipfs pubsub <subcmd> --help' for more information about each command.
    - fizzbatter 10y ago
      Wow, thank you! Very interesting! Quite odd that none of my follows mentioned this going live, must be an issue of too many github issues. Time to dig into this a bit! edit: For anyone else perplexed and surprised by me, seems `floodsub` is their moniker for the new tech, and it was (in part) merged in here: https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/pull/3202 https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/pull/3202 This is really, really cool! Also, if this implementation is robust and performant, this is huge for IPFS.
lgierth 10y ago
Hah, I agree with your resentment about the recent wave of "serverless" :) By now redis has been replaced with native IPFS pubsub, which is provided by both go-ipfs and js-ipfs. The only remaining server-ish is some means of bootstrapping, i.e. entering the network. I'm not sure how up-to-date the readme is, but the demo (orbit.libp2p.io) is out-of-date and still uses redis pubsub. I pinged @haadcode, who can go more into detail.

Another false headline. "serverless"? Nope. A redis server must be running.

by dwills 10y ago

Another false headline. "serverless"? Nope. A redis server must be running.

aleken 10y ago

I imagine an IPFS chat software could store it's necessary information in... IPFS. So why involve redis?

kefka 10y ago
Because IPFS only does distributed storage. It has no processing power or logic to handle data transformations. Now, one avenue to handle that is js-ipfs. In order to update things like IPNS records, you need the private key of the node you're trying to change. Interestingly enough, and machine with the pub/priv key can submit an IPNS change. So effectively, you could have a shared repo like Usenet, where everyone has the pub/priv key and pushes updates via js-ipfs. Although, I could imagine easily how that could get super-heavy. _________________________ Another idea I had, was to build something akin to AWS lambda, except using Tor Hidden Services, and Erlang. It would be effectively a private computation cloud. The reason for the HS is so each machine, regardless of their location, could always talk with each other, using Erlang's built--in networking support. (I am using non-standard applications of Tor Hidden Services - read more what I'm doing here: https://hackaday.io/project/12985-multisite-homeofficehackerspace-automation https://hackaday.io/project/12985-multisite-homeofficehacker... )
- mirimir 10y ago
  That's very cool! Have you looked at OnionCat? I've managed a global LizardFS cluster on a PeerVPN network, overlayed on OnionCat IPv6. Latency is too high for erasure coding or XOR goals, but chunk-replication mode works reliably.
daviddias 10y ago
redis was mainly used to get pubsub for the first iteration (demonstrated in June), now (demonstrated in September) orbit uses IPFS pubsub (available in the go-ipfs implementation) for a complete distributed web application.

heliumcraft 10y ago

Isn't Redis used just for running the test suite?

daviddias 10y ago
It was just used for pubsub on the 1st iteration, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12721898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12721898

carolc 10y ago

Orbit used to use a Redis server for pubsub messaging but it's not anymore as IPFS has implemented a peer-to-peer pubsub. Totally serverless.

fizzbatter 10y ago
Are you familiar with IPFS pubsub? Would you be able to link some information about the implementation/usage? I'm quite surprised to hear what you said. I've been following multiple Github Issues on IPFS pubsub, and none of them (that i followed) announced success/etc. I thought it was still in the planning phase.
- diggan 10y ago
  There is some prototype work done in master already (if you build go-ipfs from source). $ ipfs pubsub --help USAGE ipfs pubsub - An experimental publish-subscribe system on ipfs. SYNOPSIS ipfs pubsub DESCRIPTION ipfs pubsub allows you to publish messages to a given topic, and also to subscribe to new messages on a given topic. This is an experimental feature. It is not intended in its current state to be used in a production environment. To use, the daemon must be run with '--enable-pubsub-experiment'. SUBCOMMANDS ipfs pubsub ls - List subscribed topics by name. ipfs pubsub peers - List all peers we are currently pubsubbing with. ipfs pubsub pub <topic> <data>... - Publish a message to a given pubsub topic. ipfs pubsub sub <topic> - Subscribe to messages on a given topic. Use 'ipfs pubsub <subcmd> --help' for more information about each command.
  - fizzbatter 10y ago
    Wow, thank you! Very interesting! Quite odd that none of my follows mentioned this going live, must be an issue of too many github issues. Time to dig into this a bit! edit: For anyone else perplexed and surprised by me, seems `floodsub` is their moniker for the new tech, and it was (in part) merged in here: https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/pull/3202 https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/pull/3202 This is really, really cool! Also, if this implementation is robust and performant, this is huge for IPFS.

lgierth 10y ago

Hah, I agree with your resentment about the recent wave of "serverless" :) By now redis has been replaced with native IPFS pubsub, which is provided by both go-ipfs and js-ipfs. The only remaining server-ish is some means of bootstrapping, i.e. entering the network. I'm not sure how up-to-date the readme is, but the demo (orbit.libp2p.io) is out-of-date and still uses redis pubsub. I pinged @haadcode, who can go more into detail.