4 ms·

I switched to Linux about 2 months ago specifically to take advantage of powerful WMs. My WM of choice handles the "always on top, small video window in the cor

by city41 10y ago

I switched to Linux about 2 months ago specifically to take advantage of powerful WMs. My WM of choice handles the "always on top, small video window in the corner" beautifully. It also works with any app, and any video service, where Firefox's has to be custom tailored to different scenarios. It all makes me wonder why both Windows and OSX are so unwilling to either explore more powerful window management, or at least provide APIs to enable power users to build their own.

newscracker 10y ago
Could you list your window manager of choice and also which others you explored (along with any observations)? I'm sure at least a few people here would be interested.
- onli 10y ago
  Not parent, but one answer I can give you is IceWM. It's a classic WM with a complete feature set supporting all advanced features like these (everything that is not tiling).
- shadeless 10y ago
  i3wm is a pretty popular tiling window manager which supports what parent described - you can set a window to "float" (so it doesn't tile, you can move around it like in a regular wm) and you can also set it to be "sticky" (so it stays visible even if you switch to a different workspace).
  - city41 10y ago
    Yup, i3 is what I'm using. I admit my wm investigation wasn't that thorough, I mostly chose i3 because coworkers use it and I really liked it right off the bat. I also tried xmonad and awesome. And not that anyone will see this now, but most people in this thread were responding to my "OSX and Windows don't offer powerful window management solutions" specifically in reference to my comment about floating windows. That's just one example of many things OSX/Windows doesn't allow the user to do. Not to be too dramatic, but i3 has made me more productive, more focused and happier while working. I now fear ending up in an environment where using Linux isn't possible. It's really that good. But really, tiling window managers are that good.
- pwg 10y ago
  Not parent, but Fvwm2 is extremely configurable such that you can tweak it to look and behave in almost any way you desire.
- petre 10y ago
  Xfwm (part of XFCE) but that's kind of useless w/o the other components around it such as the panel, the config, so you probably want the full desktop environment (don't worry, it's rather lightweight). I also used Fluxbox and Openbox and like both very much, but they are kind of basic. Working with any of those is both faster and easier than any of Windows or MacOS, for me at least.
pjmlp 10y ago
In the old days you could replace the Windows shell, many did use the alternative shell sold by Stardock or the After Step clone for Windows. However the majority of normal users don't care. I also eventually got bored (using GNU/Linux since 1995) and always use whatever is the default WM of a specific distribution. This is yet another reason why GNU/Linux lost the desktop, non-technical people and those that have to support them, don't really like choice.
- gribbly 10y ago
  >I also eventually got bored Not really sure what you mean here, I choose a particular WM setup which best serves my workflow, and that's pretty much it, it's not as if you have to continously tweak your setup. >This is yet another reason why GNU/Linux lost the desktop Can't really see how it 'lost' the desktop, it never had it, nor was it ever in the runnning to claim it, same goes for OSX despite having a ton of product placement, straight up advertising and riding the huge wave of pro-Apple consumerism in the mobile space. In short, I don't believe for a second that standardising on a particular UI would have made any difference in 'drawing the masses', if super wealthy Apple at it's prime couldn't, then neither would Linux.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    I imagine you are not old enough to remember the yearly "The year of desktop Linux" on Slashdot. Also in the old days it was fashionable to try all WM and post screenshots of our setups, specially on weekends. There were quite a few web sites to share themes even.
    - gribbly 10y ago
      >I imagine you are not old enough to remember the yearly "The year of desktop Linux" on Slashdot. Sure I am, but that meme was (still is?) repeated as a joke, did anyone actually believe it ? >Also in the old days it was fashionable to try all WM and post screenshots of our setups, specially on weekends. People still do that, there's a reddit sub dedicated to it: https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn ,but then again there's a reddit sub dedicated to just about everything. Just like there are stamp collectors, train spotters, rock climbers, ballroom dancers etc, there are people who find enjoyment in tweaking/expressing themselves through 'pimping' their computer environment, I see nothing wrong with that although it's not my cup of tea. After having configured my environment of choice according to my specific needs I leave it alone and instead waste my spare time on places like Hacker News ;)
hrez 10y ago
There are apps like http://www.abstractpath.com/powermenu/ http://www.abstractpath.com/powermenu/ that add "always on top" to windows control menu.
ComodoHacker 10y ago
>why both Windows and OSX are so unwilling to either explore more powerful window management, or at least provide APIs to enable power users to build their own. You will wonder how many users have single-threaded, single-windowed mindset (hint: vast majority). No offense here, having multiple windows on desktop really distracts and confuses them, harming their productivity. APIs are provided though, at least in Windows. Aston Desktop[1] is still working on Windows 7. 1. http://www.astonshell.com/ http://www.astonshell.com/
- paavokoya 10y ago
  having multiple windows on desktop really distracts and confuses them, harming their productivity. You sound elitist about ADHD. Focus isn't a bad thing.
piyush_soni 10y ago
Windows does provide the API to keep windows always on top. You can do that with AutoHotKey [1], or numerous other apps out there that have been working for years. Had used DeskPins [2] for quite a few years before realizing my favorite application StrokeIt [3] already allows it. If you don't like third party apps, you can very easily write your own. [1] : http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/13784/keep-a-window-on-top-with-a-handy-autohotkey-script/ http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/13784/keep-a-window-on-top-wi... [2] : http://deskpins.en.softonic.com/ http://deskpins.en.softonic.com/ [3] : http://www.tcbmi.com/strokeit/ http://www.tcbmi.com/strokeit/
pwg 10y ago
> It all makes me wonder why both Windows and OSX are so unwilling to either explore more powerful window management, or at least provide APIs to enable power users to build their own. Take a look around at the desktops of the majority of windows and osx users. Not the power users, who are a small minority of the user base of both OS'es, but the "I merely _use_ a computer to do task _X_" type users. Once you start to look, you'll notice a trend. An overwhelming majority of them will be running every single application on their desktop in window maximized mode. And this will be true no matter the size of any monitors they have attached. The closest they get to "window management" is to poke the icon in their toolbar/dock for whatever it is next that they want to see on their screen. Both OS'es likely do have API's to allow for an 'always on top' setting, but with a userbase that is 99% "run everything full screen" at the outset there is no room for those users to make use of an 'always on top' window (because it too would be maximized, defeating the usefulness of the 'on top' setting). Therefore neither maker likely sees much value in exposing those API's.

by city41 10y ago

newscracker 10y ago

Could you list your window manager of choice and also which others you explored (along with any observations)? I'm sure at least a few people here would be interested.

onli 10y ago
Not parent, but one answer I can give you is IceWM. It's a classic WM with a complete feature set supporting all advanced features like these (everything that is not tiling).
shadeless 10y ago
i3wm is a pretty popular tiling window manager which supports what parent described - you can set a window to "float" (so it doesn't tile, you can move around it like in a regular wm) and you can also set it to be "sticky" (so it stays visible even if you switch to a different workspace).
- city41 10y ago
  Yup, i3 is what I'm using. I admit my wm investigation wasn't that thorough, I mostly chose i3 because coworkers use it and I really liked it right off the bat. I also tried xmonad and awesome. And not that anyone will see this now, but most people in this thread were responding to my "OSX and Windows don't offer powerful window management solutions" specifically in reference to my comment about floating windows. That's just one example of many things OSX/Windows doesn't allow the user to do. Not to be too dramatic, but i3 has made me more productive, more focused and happier while working. I now fear ending up in an environment where using Linux isn't possible. It's really that good. But really, tiling window managers are that good.
pwg 10y ago
Not parent, but Fvwm2 is extremely configurable such that you can tweak it to look and behave in almost any way you desire.
petre 10y ago
Xfwm (part of XFCE) but that's kind of useless w/o the other components around it such as the panel, the config, so you probably want the full desktop environment (don't worry, it's rather lightweight). I also used Fluxbox and Openbox and like both very much, but they are kind of basic. Working with any of those is both faster and easier than any of Windows or MacOS, for me at least.

pjmlp 10y ago

In the old days you could replace the Windows shell, many did use the alternative shell sold by Stardock or the After Step clone for Windows. However the majority of normal users don't care. I also eventually got bored (using GNU/Linux since 1995) and always use whatever is the default WM of a specific distribution. This is yet another reason why GNU/Linux lost the desktop, non-technical people and those that have to support them, don't really like choice.

gribbly 10y ago
>I also eventually got bored Not really sure what you mean here, I choose a particular WM setup which best serves my workflow, and that's pretty much it, it's not as if you have to continously tweak your setup. >This is yet another reason why GNU/Linux lost the desktop Can't really see how it 'lost' the desktop, it never had it, nor was it ever in the runnning to claim it, same goes for OSX despite having a ton of product placement, straight up advertising and riding the huge wave of pro-Apple consumerism in the mobile space. In short, I don't believe for a second that standardising on a particular UI would have made any difference in 'drawing the masses', if super wealthy Apple at it's prime couldn't, then neither would Linux.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  I imagine you are not old enough to remember the yearly "The year of desktop Linux" on Slashdot. Also in the old days it was fashionable to try all WM and post screenshots of our setups, specially on weekends. There were quite a few web sites to share themes even.
  - gribbly 10y ago
    >I imagine you are not old enough to remember the yearly "The year of desktop Linux" on Slashdot. Sure I am, but that meme was (still is?) repeated as a joke, did anyone actually believe it ? >Also in the old days it was fashionable to try all WM and post screenshots of our setups, specially on weekends. People still do that, there's a reddit sub dedicated to it: https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn ,but then again there's a reddit sub dedicated to just about everything. Just like there are stamp collectors, train spotters, rock climbers, ballroom dancers etc, there are people who find enjoyment in tweaking/expressing themselves through 'pimping' their computer environment, I see nothing wrong with that although it's not my cup of tea. After having configured my environment of choice according to my specific needs I leave it alone and instead waste my spare time on places like Hacker News ;)

hrez 10y ago

There are apps like http://www.abstractpath.com/powermenu/ http://www.abstractpath.com/powermenu/ that add "always on top" to windows control menu.

ComodoHacker 10y ago

>why both Windows and OSX are so unwilling to either explore more powerful window management, or at least provide APIs to enable power users to build their own. You will wonder how many users have single-threaded, single-windowed mindset (hint: vast majority). No offense here, having multiple windows on desktop really distracts and confuses them, harming their productivity. APIs are provided though, at least in Windows. Aston Desktop[1] is still working on Windows 7. 1. http://www.astonshell.com/ http://www.astonshell.com/

paavokoya 10y ago
having multiple windows on desktop really distracts and confuses them, harming their productivity. You sound elitist about ADHD. Focus isn't a bad thing.

piyush_soni 10y ago

Windows does provide the API to keep windows always on top. You can do that with AutoHotKey [1], or numerous other apps out there that have been working for years. Had used DeskPins [2] for quite a few years before realizing my favorite application StrokeIt [3] already allows it. If you don't like third party apps, you can very easily write your own. [1] : http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/13784/keep-a-window-on-top-with-a-handy-autohotkey-script/ http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/13784/keep-a-window-on-top-wi... [2] : http://deskpins.en.softonic.com/ http://deskpins.en.softonic.com/ [3] : http://www.tcbmi.com/strokeit/ http://www.tcbmi.com/strokeit/

pwg 10y ago

> It all makes me wonder why both Windows and OSX are so unwilling to either explore more powerful window management, or at least provide APIs to enable power users to build their own. Take a look around at the desktops of the majority of windows and osx users. Not the power users, who are a small minority of the user base of both OS'es, but the "I merely _use_ a computer to do task _X_" type users. Once you start to look, you'll notice a trend. An overwhelming majority of them will be running every single application on their desktop in window maximized mode. And this will be true no matter the size of any monitors they have attached. The closest they get to "window management" is to poke the icon in their toolbar/dock for whatever it is next that they want to see on their screen. Both OS'es likely do have API's to allow for an 'always on top' setting, but with a userbase that is 99% "run everything full screen" at the outset there is no room for those users to make use of an 'always on top' window (because it too would be maximized, defeating the usefulness of the 'on top' setting). Therefore neither maker likely sees much value in exposing those API's.