4 ms·

That is scary, but not surprising. Even if you gave someone without savings 600 bucks right now, chances are they'd turn around and buy a new iphone with it in

by shados 10y ago

That is scary, but not surprising. Even if you gave someone without savings 600 bucks right now, chances are they'd turn around and buy a new iphone with it instead of saving it. And then you have all the people who are in a situation where they can't save if they wanted to, be it because of poor decisions or bad circumstances out of their control. And honestly, even if you CAN save...I'm very lucky and quite privileged, and was looking at my 401k recently. It's doing quite well (yay!), but if I extrapolate to retirement, I'm not even close to what I'll need to have a comfy retirement. The majority of people are just flat out screwed. How to solve this...who knows. Its a hard problem.

jwatte 10y ago
"chances are they'd turn around and buy a new iphone" Most in that situation would spend the money, but on needs like food or medication. The "blow it on a new iPhone" meme comes from an entitled right wing culture (that also made up the concept of a "Welfare Queen ")
- kobeya 10y ago
  > but on needs like food or medication Or debt. (Real debt -- the ones where they break your legs if you don't repay.) > The "blow it on a new iPhone" meme comes from an entitled right wing culture I would have kept "right wing" out of it. Entitlement stereotypes are on both sides of the aisle, no need to make this partisan.
- LyndsySimon 10y ago
  > [...] entitled right wing culture (that also made up the concept of a "Welfare Queen ") The first use of the term that I can find is from Jet Magazine in 1974. They're hardly "right-wing". https://books.google.com/books?id=DVsDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA1&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=DVsDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA1&pg=PA...
  - nibnib 10y ago
    That's not quite the same usage as Reagan though.
eli 10y ago
How did you arrive at the conclusion that most poor people would waste $600 on things they don't really need?
- fred_is_fred 10y ago
  Rush Limbaugh would be my guess
- orangecat 10y ago
  It's not just poor people. If it really is the case that 70% of Americans have no significant savings, then we're talking about a whole lot of people above the median income, not all of whom have unusual situations requiring them to spend everything they earn.
- bisby 10y ago
  If more than the top 30% of people have iphones (or equally expensive phones), then some percentage of people did exactly that. There is going to be a huge intersection of people with less than 1000$ in savings, but have an iPhone. Perhaps that's WHY they have so little savings? I knew a family who filed for bankruptcy while having 3 macbooks they used for MS Word and Facebook. Bad spending habits and the need to keep up with the Jones are both issues. Not all people are poor because they "waste" money, but when you consider that a lot of luxuries are considered "necessities", you have to question things.
  - pdkl95 10y ago
    > ... but when you consider that a lot of luxuries are considered "necessities", you have to question things. Sometimes "luxuries" are necessities, in less obvious ways. For example, it may be very difficult to get certain types of jobs unless you display the right status symbols[1]. [1] https://tressiemc.com/2013/10/29/the-logic-of-stupid-poor-people/ https://tressiemc.com/2013/10/29/the-logic-of-stupid-poor-pe...
    - teslabox 10y ago
      That's a nice site... The author has some really good points about for-profit colleges too. The $20 Principle I have written before about how $20 can change a student’s life. The $20 is slightly euphemistic but not entirely so. We talk a lot about big money in higher education but I know for a fact that it’s small money that can derail one’s educational ambitions. I was a student in a doctoral preparation program. I was an older “non-traditional” student. I was independent. I didn’t have children but neither was I still someone’s child. To take advantage of this highly competitive program, I had to submit a $100 reservation fee. I didn’t have it. I was $24 short. - https://tressiemc.com/2016/08/30/the-20-principle/ https://tressiemc.com/2016/08/30/the-20-principle/
fred_is_fred 10y ago
If you don't have enough saved for retirement maybe you should stop wasting $600 on a new iPhone. Doesn't being judged suck?
- dewyatt 10y ago
  You're getting downvoted but I agree with you, the parent is jumping to a ridiculous conclusion and lacks perspective. I expect he has not had many difficult times.
  - shados 10y ago
    It's just math: nearly 70% of people have nearly no savings, but market penetration for a lot of luxury devices when put together is a heck of a lot more than 30%. So there's an intersection. How large is it? Who knows. And while I was never homeless, I spent most of my life having to pick between rent and food and surrounded by people who were in the same boat. That's where I've seen that situation happen times and times again.
- rdm42116 10y ago
  If Americans are truly NOT saving (as opposed to just not using savings accounts): Yes, being judgmental without knowing the whole story isn't a good thing, but that misses the point: people are choosing to spend instead of save-and many times it's on luxuries. He's not just talking about the poor. It is a fact that an iPhone is a luxury. There are plenty of much cheaper phones that function exactly the same as an iPhone. But through excessive marketing and a digitized world, people are convinced they NEED an iPhone. They're convinced they NEED a $1500 Macbook Pro for school in liberal arts. It's not good to make judgments on the poor, but this is 69% of Americans, not just the poor (impoverished are closer to 15%), and that's the scary part. Most but the top 30% are spending above their means, and getting credit to do it, in an economy that's probably not going to grow like it did in the 20th century.
- shados 10y ago
  Well no, that was exactly my point. People who are privileged and don't have anything stopping them from saving, still don't and screw themselves over. If that's true, then people for whom it's difficult/impossible to save are completely screwed, and we need to chance something, because the odds really ARE stacked against them.

by shados 10y ago

jwatte 10y ago

"chances are they'd turn around and buy a new iphone" Most in that situation would spend the money, but on needs like food or medication. The "blow it on a new iPhone" meme comes from an entitled right wing culture (that also made up the concept of a "Welfare Queen ")

kobeya 10y ago
> but on needs like food or medication Or debt. (Real debt -- the ones where they break your legs if you don't repay.) > The "blow it on a new iPhone" meme comes from an entitled right wing culture I would have kept "right wing" out of it. Entitlement stereotypes are on both sides of the aisle, no need to make this partisan.
LyndsySimon 10y ago
> [...] entitled right wing culture (that also made up the concept of a "Welfare Queen ") The first use of the term that I can find is from Jet Magazine in 1974. They're hardly "right-wing". https://books.google.com/books?id=DVsDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA1&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=DVsDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA1&pg=PA...
- nibnib 10y ago
  That's not quite the same usage as Reagan though.

eli 10y ago

How did you arrive at the conclusion that most poor people would waste $600 on things they don't really need?

fred_is_fred 10y ago
Rush Limbaugh would be my guess
orangecat 10y ago
It's not just poor people. If it really is the case that 70% of Americans have no significant savings, then we're talking about a whole lot of people above the median income, not all of whom have unusual situations requiring them to spend everything they earn.
bisby 10y ago
If more than the top 30% of people have iphones (or equally expensive phones), then some percentage of people did exactly that. There is going to be a huge intersection of people with less than 1000$ in savings, but have an iPhone. Perhaps that's WHY they have so little savings? I knew a family who filed for bankruptcy while having 3 macbooks they used for MS Word and Facebook. Bad spending habits and the need to keep up with the Jones are both issues. Not all people are poor because they "waste" money, but when you consider that a lot of luxuries are considered "necessities", you have to question things.
- pdkl95 10y ago
  > ... but when you consider that a lot of luxuries are considered "necessities", you have to question things. Sometimes "luxuries" are necessities, in less obvious ways. For example, it may be very difficult to get certain types of jobs unless you display the right status symbols[1]. [1] https://tressiemc.com/2013/10/29/the-logic-of-stupid-poor-people/ https://tressiemc.com/2013/10/29/the-logic-of-stupid-poor-pe...
  - teslabox 10y ago
    That's a nice site... The author has some really good points about for-profit colleges too. The $20 Principle I have written before about how $20 can change a student’s life. The $20 is slightly euphemistic but not entirely so. We talk a lot about big money in higher education but I know for a fact that it’s small money that can derail one’s educational ambitions. I was a student in a doctoral preparation program. I was an older “non-traditional” student. I was independent. I didn’t have children but neither was I still someone’s child. To take advantage of this highly competitive program, I had to submit a $100 reservation fee. I didn’t have it. I was $24 short. - https://tressiemc.com/2016/08/30/the-20-principle/ https://tressiemc.com/2016/08/30/the-20-principle/

fred_is_fred 10y ago

If you don't have enough saved for retirement maybe you should stop wasting $600 on a new iPhone. Doesn't being judged suck?

dewyatt 10y ago
You're getting downvoted but I agree with you, the parent is jumping to a ridiculous conclusion and lacks perspective. I expect he has not had many difficult times.
- shados 10y ago
  It's just math: nearly 70% of people have nearly no savings, but market penetration for a lot of luxury devices when put together is a heck of a lot more than 30%. So there's an intersection. How large is it? Who knows. And while I was never homeless, I spent most of my life having to pick between rent and food and surrounded by people who were in the same boat. That's where I've seen that situation happen times and times again.
rdm42116 10y ago
If Americans are truly NOT saving (as opposed to just not using savings accounts): Yes, being judgmental without knowing the whole story isn't a good thing, but that misses the point: people are choosing to spend instead of save-and many times it's on luxuries. He's not just talking about the poor. It is a fact that an iPhone is a luxury. There are plenty of much cheaper phones that function exactly the same as an iPhone. But through excessive marketing and a digitized world, people are convinced they NEED an iPhone. They're convinced they NEED a $1500 Macbook Pro for school in liberal arts. It's not good to make judgments on the poor, but this is 69% of Americans, not just the poor (impoverished are closer to 15%), and that's the scary part. Most but the top 30% are spending above their means, and getting credit to do it, in an economy that's probably not going to grow like it did in the 20th century.
shados 10y ago
Well no, that was exactly my point. People who are privileged and don't have anything stopping them from saving, still don't and screw themselves over. If that's true, then people for whom it's difficult/impossible to save are completely screwed, and we need to chance something, because the odds really ARE stacked against them.