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...and try to cherry-pick some cool ideas for dialogs... See, I think that's part of the problem. Dialogs pretend that the computer is something that can enga

by Qz 17y ago

...and try to cherry-pick some cool ideas for dialogs... See, I think that's part of the problem. Dialogs pretend that the computer is something that can engage in conversation. But computers don't understand human and (many) humans don't understand computer. So the illusion that computers can engage in these 'dialogs' only exacerbates the problem by perpetuating miscommunications. I think what interfaces need to strive for is a different model of how the user is expected to interact with the computer. It used to be that most people worked with creating and editing files, but I think modern use has shifted towards navigating between places -- unfortunately the old UI paradigm of file management is still dominant among a significant portion of modern software.

cookiecaper 17y ago
Well, I meant dialog like "dialog boxes", not like a discourse. I think the shift represents a change in the primary use of a computer. Early on it was just a thing to let you save and read files written with word processors etc. Now, with the internet, people mostly use it scoot around a global network of files, most of which they have never saved or touched themselves. It would be interesting to see some truly unique concepts of computer usage. KDE wanted to shake it up with KDE 4 and change the whole paradigm, but they ended up essentially just adding widgets and leaving everything else the same. I don't know if there's just no other logical representation for the way we use our computers (doubtful) or if perhaps nobody can seem to think of it because we're too acclimated to the traditional window-based model.
- Qz 17y ago
  I know you meant dialog boxes, but dialog boxes have that name for a reason. They usually tell the user something and then ask for a response. The problem is that the computer doesn't really understand what it's asking about, it's just a pre-recorded message. Dialog boxes on a computer are the equivalent of the automated phone menus and just as frustrating (although those are getting better with speech recognition). I have some ideas that I think are pretty good but I'm not an expert coder so progress is slow. I think windows is mostly the right idea, but the current implementations are crammed with wastefulness of all types such as application windows that take up unnecessary screen space with menus and buttons that are rarely used (this is getting better, but in my opinion the idea of 'applications' is part of the problem). Another thing is window resizing -- full user control over this is pointless, and a lot of time is wasted resizing windows so you can see things the way you want. Various X Windows versions try to fix this with smart tiling and so on, but I've yet to find one that's really satisfactory. Another sad thing is that even simple drag and drop, which has been around for ages, is poorly implemented in the majority of programs, if at all.

by Qz 17y ago

cookiecaper 17y ago

Well, I meant dialog like "dialog boxes", not like a discourse. I think the shift represents a change in the primary use of a computer. Early on it was just a thing to let you save and read files written with word processors etc. Now, with the internet, people mostly use it scoot around a global network of files, most of which they have never saved or touched themselves. It would be interesting to see some truly unique concepts of computer usage. KDE wanted to shake it up with KDE 4 and change the whole paradigm, but they ended up essentially just adding widgets and leaving everything else the same. I don't know if there's just no other logical representation for the way we use our computers (doubtful) or if perhaps nobody can seem to think of it because we're too acclimated to the traditional window-based model.

Qz 17y ago
I know you meant dialog boxes, but dialog boxes have that name for a reason. They usually tell the user something and then ask for a response. The problem is that the computer doesn't really understand what it's asking about, it's just a pre-recorded message. Dialog boxes on a computer are the equivalent of the automated phone menus and just as frustrating (although those are getting better with speech recognition). I have some ideas that I think are pretty good but I'm not an expert coder so progress is slow. I think windows is mostly the right idea, but the current implementations are crammed with wastefulness of all types such as application windows that take up unnecessary screen space with menus and buttons that are rarely used (this is getting better, but in my opinion the idea of 'applications' is part of the problem). Another thing is window resizing -- full user control over this is pointless, and a lot of time is wasted resizing windows so you can see things the way you want. Various X Windows versions try to fix this with smart tiling and so on, but I've yet to find one that's really satisfactory. Another sad thing is that even simple drag and drop, which has been around for ages, is poorly implemented in the majority of programs, if at all.