5 ms·

DOJ challenges landmark Microsoft warrant case

69 points by us0r 10y ago

finnn 10y ago
> And it says that responding to the warrant would not circumvent the privacy of users, because they have no way to know, or control, where their data is stored. So if they add an option somewhere in the settings to allow users to pick where their data is stored this becomes invalid?
- jlgaddis 10y ago
  Wouldn't it be great if all these web apps running on AWS, Azure, etc., would run instances in different regions and let the user choose which instance they want to make use of (and, thus, where their data is stored)?
  - piotrkaminski 10y ago
    I think even better would be to stripe all data across a bunch of regions.
    - mirimir 10y ago
      ... after encryption
      - piotrkaminski 10y ago
        Naturally. :) Hmm, I wonder if there's an actual addressable market niche here?
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
us0r 10y ago
File: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3141942-Microsoft-Silk-Road-DOJ-United-States-Appellee.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3141942-Microsoft-Si...
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
Please write an email, or better yet call, your state and federal representatives/assembly people and senators if you care about this. There is an honest belief, on the Hill, that Americans don't care about this.
- sdegutis 10y ago
  There's an honest belief, off the hill, that Americans can't actually change a damn thing about our political system, whether through activism or calling our state and federal representatives or voting or basically anything. That we can't control a damn thing that happens on the state or federal scope.
  - plandis 10y ago
    Yeah the five separate occasions I've reached out to my representatives I've received 4 form style responses and one that was never responded to at all.
vvanders 10y ago
They are systematically destroying the American tech industry with these types of moves. In a global economy who is going to want to use American tech when they know any server will be wide open to the government.
mankash666 10y ago
Every time the government does this, they have to understand that the flood gates open for other governments to do this. Next thing you know, China will request data on Americans
- plandis 10y ago
  Assuming that they have not already.
chrismcb 10y ago
"it will hamper our investigation" Well boo hoo. We have checks and balances and due process for a reason. It isn't about catching the bad guy at all costs.
- heisenbit 10y ago
  Borders are in place to hamper agents. That is their whole purpose. Crossing borders without permission is provoking conflict and war. Crossing borders traditionally requires negotiation. This is the way in any governance framework. A world without any respected borders is a world in which there is no escalation, protection and where government is melting down. An agency that is tasked with protecting the borders of the law should understand that. If anyone struggles just think how it feels (for the sake of the argument here it is irrelevant whether true or not) to be at the receiving end of Russian cyber bullying interfering with the election.
tracker1 10y ago
So, the U.S. government would be OK with another country requesting data on the U.S. Gov't AWS cloud that Amazon has setup?
- Analemma_ 10y ago
  No no no, that wouldn't be allowed at all. You see, we're the good guys; that makes it OK.
- tzs 10y ago
  That's not really an analogous situation. The analogous situation would be another country asking a company located and incorporated in that other country for a copy of an electronic document that is under the control of that company, which they have stored on a server in the US. That company has remote access to the server and can copy/move the document without needing the cooperation or even awareness of anyone in the US. I doubt that the US would object to the other country's government requiring the company to make a copy of the document and giving it to that government.
  - tracker1 10y ago
    And such a company would be Amazon, and such an example would be Amazon's services for the government.
idclip 10y ago
" And it (DOJ) says that responding to the warrant would not circumvent the privacy of users, because they have no way to know, or control, where their data is stored" Heh.
sesutton 10y ago
Hopefully they appeal it all the way to the Supreme Court so it can become precedent for the whole country.
pfortuny 10y ago
"far-reaching consequences", they say. Indeed.
plandis 10y ago
It scares me to think that the US will most likely have a president that not only doesn't understand technology but has proven that she cannot seem to appoint the right expertise to make up for that short coming. I foresee more of this in the future. :-/
- tomschlick 10y ago
  > that not only doesn't understand technology She understands it. They just play it off that she doesn't so she can claim ignorance when the has classified info on a private exchange server.
jdp23 10y ago
Jennifer Daskal has some interesting perspectives on this on Just Security. https://www.justsecurity.org/33577/dangerous-implications-microsoft-ireland-case/ https://www.justsecurity.org/33577/dangerous-implications-mi...
1024core 10y ago
> “This effect is already harming important investigations, and it has potentially far-reaching consequences.” So do some of the amendments to the Bill of Rights. Should we get rid of that too? Edit: wow, this is being downvoted into oblivion. In the time it took me to write my comment, it went from the first page to the second. Other than DoJ operatives, I don't know who would downvote this, as it is important to our industry.

69 points by us0r 10y ago

finnn 10y ago

> And it says that responding to the warrant would not circumvent the privacy of users, because they have no way to know, or control, where their data is stored. So if they add an option somewhere in the settings to allow users to pick where their data is stored this becomes invalid?

jlgaddis 10y ago
Wouldn't it be great if all these web apps running on AWS, Azure, etc., would run instances in different regions and let the user choose which instance they want to make use of (and, thus, where their data is stored)?
- piotrkaminski 10y ago
  I think even better would be to stripe all data across a bunch of regions.
  - mirimir 10y ago
    ... after encryption
    - piotrkaminski 10y ago
      Naturally. :) Hmm, I wonder if there's an actual addressable market niche here?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

us0r 10y ago

File: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3141942-Microsoft-Silk-Road-DOJ-United-States-Appellee.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3141942-Microsoft-Si...

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

Please write an email, or better yet call, your state and federal representatives/assembly people and senators if you care about this. There is an honest belief, on the Hill, that Americans don't care about this.

sdegutis 10y ago
There's an honest belief, off the hill, that Americans can't actually change a damn thing about our political system, whether through activism or calling our state and federal representatives or voting or basically anything. That we can't control a damn thing that happens on the state or federal scope.
- plandis 10y ago
  Yeah the five separate occasions I've reached out to my representatives I've received 4 form style responses and one that was never responded to at all.

vvanders 10y ago

They are systematically destroying the American tech industry with these types of moves. In a global economy who is going to want to use American tech when they know any server will be wide open to the government.

mankash666 10y ago

Every time the government does this, they have to understand that the flood gates open for other governments to do this. Next thing you know, China will request data on Americans

plandis 10y ago
Assuming that they have not already.

chrismcb 10y ago

"it will hamper our investigation" Well boo hoo. We have checks and balances and due process for a reason. It isn't about catching the bad guy at all costs.

heisenbit 10y ago
Borders are in place to hamper agents. That is their whole purpose. Crossing borders without permission is provoking conflict and war. Crossing borders traditionally requires negotiation. This is the way in any governance framework. A world without any respected borders is a world in which there is no escalation, protection and where government is melting down. An agency that is tasked with protecting the borders of the law should understand that. If anyone struggles just think how it feels (for the sake of the argument here it is irrelevant whether true or not) to be at the receiving end of Russian cyber bullying interfering with the election.

tracker1 10y ago

So, the U.S. government would be OK with another country requesting data on the U.S. Gov't AWS cloud that Amazon has setup?

Analemma_ 10y ago
No no no, that wouldn't be allowed at all. You see, we're the good guys; that makes it OK.
tzs 10y ago
That's not really an analogous situation. The analogous situation would be another country asking a company located and incorporated in that other country for a copy of an electronic document that is under the control of that company, which they have stored on a server in the US. That company has remote access to the server and can copy/move the document without needing the cooperation or even awareness of anyone in the US. I doubt that the US would object to the other country's government requiring the company to make a copy of the document and giving it to that government.
- tracker1 10y ago
  And such a company would be Amazon, and such an example would be Amazon's services for the government.

idclip 10y ago

" And it (DOJ) says that responding to the warrant would not circumvent the privacy of users, because they have no way to know, or control, where their data is stored" Heh.

sesutton 10y ago

Hopefully they appeal it all the way to the Supreme Court so it can become precedent for the whole country.

pfortuny 10y ago

"far-reaching consequences", they say. Indeed.

plandis 10y ago

It scares me to think that the US will most likely have a president that not only doesn't understand technology but has proven that she cannot seem to appoint the right expertise to make up for that short coming. I foresee more of this in the future. :-/

tomschlick 10y ago
> that not only doesn't understand technology She understands it. They just play it off that she doesn't so she can claim ignorance when the has classified info on a private exchange server.

jdp23 10y ago

Jennifer Daskal has some interesting perspectives on this on Just Security. https://www.justsecurity.org/33577/dangerous-implications-microsoft-ireland-case/ https://www.justsecurity.org/33577/dangerous-implications-mi...

1024core 10y ago

> “This effect is already harming important investigations, and it has potentially far-reaching consequences.” So do some of the amendments to the Bill of Rights. Should we get rid of that too? Edit: wow, this is being downvoted into oblivion. In the time it took me to write my comment, it went from the first page to the second. Other than DoJ operatives, I don't know who would downvote this, as it is important to our industry.