6 ms·

The day my brain forgot where my back was

43 points by gdee 16y ago

csarva 16y ago
my tl;dr summary - After seeing several doctors and chiropractors for her excruciating back pain, Lucy found that exercise and [re-]building core strength was the answer. The problem was her muscles, not her bones.
gdee 16y ago
responding to csarva(http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1271567)(I http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1271567)(I can't seem to reply to individual messages anymore): >[re-]building core strength That's [re-]building strength in core muscles (the ones that hold your skeleton together)... as opposed to motor muscles(those who move your limbs)... that is the crux of the whole article, and I think it makes a lot of difference. The way you put it leads to think to core moral strength. Edit: The excruciating pain is also not core to the article. In her case, damaged nerves lead to muscle fatigue being manifested in lack of power and quite pointedly lack of pain in certain circumstances when pain was to be expected (though she also describes experiencing said excruciating pain). Edit2: Actually, although the article is interspersed with passages of personal drama (it /is/ a blog post, on /her/ blog) it is also filled with too much information to be easily tl;dr'ed... Also, the post itself is a postmortem style post in which what happened over a long period of time is condensed. Further compression runs high risks of being lossy I think.
noelwelsh 16y ago
Taking a bigger picture: Muscle atrophy is one of the biggest causes of reduced quality of life in the elderly (and also the not so elderly). Women in particular are susceptible to this due to their smaller amount of muscle mass to begin with and the general cultural aversion to women undertaking resistance exercise. My own experience (as a man and admitted gym rat) is that resistance training sorts out my back problem (and generally improves my life in other ways). So, who's for deadlifts? :)
- nfnaaron 16y ago
  I've (male) been going to they gym almost a year, after 30 years of sloth, it's made a huge difference. I've heard some concern from women who don't want to work out too hard because they don't want to bulk up. I'm no expert, the responses I've heard have generally been something like most women aren't genetically prone to bulking, you're just going to get more fit, stronger and toned. In case there are any women here who have had similar concerns. IMO you're much better off being strong and fit. Working out is not (necessarily) about body building, it's about health, ability and quality of life.
  - jules 16y ago
    > they don't want to bulk up This is probably just an excuse for not exercising. I have never seen a woman in real life who would become more attractive by losing muscle, except professional sportswomen (and there's a reasonable chance that those women are using some kind of drug to get more muscles). Actually unless you're fat free you will probably bulk down rather than bulk up.
    - bitwize 16y ago
      Skinny Jessica Biel = just another actress. Jessica Biel with muscles = hot. I for one welcome our new amazon overlords (overladies?) and think there are worse ways to go than death by snu snu.
    - sliverstorm 16y ago
      Agreed- indeed, some of the cutest girls I know could become more attractive still by putting on some more lean muscle. As for whether it's an excuse or not, probably a mix. It could be for many women, fashion trends are convincing them skinny is more attractive than lithe (I love that word, describes it perfectly).
- CWuestefeld 16y ago
  My experience matches this as well. I used to see a chiropractor for back pain, and honestly it did help a bit. But I started exercising for other reasons, and that marked the real change. I felt better, even without going to the chiro. I can still feel the difference today. If I go on vacation, say, and skip exercise for more than a few days, I can feel soreness and stiffness returning. But once I pick back up the exercising (and stretching, too, I suppose), the discomfort dissipates.
tjic 16y ago
The treatment she got from the government doctors was horrible. This bit gives me chills: "We were told that we would wait at least four months for an NHS appointmen" Uggh. I'm glad that we still have free market doctors here in the US. Well, at least for the next four years.
- Super_Jambo 16y ago
  There are free market doctors in the UK, I shouldn't worry that all yours will vanish.
- amalcon 16y ago
  This does not seem unusually high for me. I live in the U.S, in a city with some of the best hospitals in the country, and it looks about median.
  - rayval 16y ago
    Agree. I live in a mid-size city with a couple of world-class medical facilities. The waits for specialists are about 3 months.
    - miri 16y ago
      Which is about the same time (well, a little bit more) as the wait times in public hospitals in awfully socialist Norway. State covers 62% of the cost up to a maximum copay, after that they'll pay the rest for you. Having various chronic illnesses, I don't mind this at all.
  - Vivtek 16y ago
    Back when my son had some kidney problems, the wait in the States would have been 72 days to see a specialist. In the lousy Hungarian public system, he saw a specialist the week we arrived. (Dual citizenship hath its privileges.) Later, we lived in Puerto Rico, also cursed with a public healthcare system that had us in a specialist's office in two weeks. We're in the US proper now (the real estate is just so damned cheap here and the school system is good for both our kids at the moment) but the lack of working health care will probably drive us out again in a couple of years. The only people who think US health care is good are people who have never experienced any other system.
youngian 16y ago
Does anyone have a link to further information on the muscle repair stuff she cited? The part about how after 25, your brain might just give muscles up for lost?
cracki 16y ago
when i was in high school, i had problems with my back and neck. we were referred to a doctor about this. he sized me up in 5 minutes. then he revealed to us his chiropractor nature and said he'd do his thing. i wasn't asked if that's what i want. it didn't occur to me either, because he's an authority figure, right? so he did his thing. and it got worse. my neck felt bent out of shape and weak. we had to see another doctor who prescribed muscle strength work. because that was the problem. fucked up muscles. why the heck do people still believe in chiropractors? they're all frauds, every single one of them.
cracki 16y ago
and what is it with "waiting months to see a doctor"? i live in germany (socialized health care) and if there's something wrong with you, you either see your GP or walk into the next (teaching) hospital. whatever further referral you need is just days away, if not just an elevator ride and a knock on a door. waiting months, docs who dismiss your opinion, trusting chiropractors... what is wrong with you?
- danbmil99 16y ago
  England. They beat you in the last war.
naner 16y ago
Well I was going to make some comments on specific parts of this blog post but there is just too much crap. Don't do anything the woman did in this article. Not even what she settled for at the end. She kept looking to quacks for quick-fixes where she didn't have to do any work when in reality all she needed was some physical therapy (which is hard work and a longer process and actually fixes your dysfunction). If you don't want to get into this situation in the first place there are even preventative physical therapy programs like egoscue and specific types of yoga. Avoid joint/bone "manipulators" and all that other new-age BS, though.
- danbmil99 16y ago
  Sounds to me like her muscle atrophy was preceded by a long period of intense pain due to one or more herniated discs. A proper course of treatment would have included pain killers and muscle relaxants simply to get her to the point where there was less spasm. Then she could have done physical therapy to build up her strength. The Chiropractors here are the most to blame -- they took a bad situation and made it much, much worse. Note that the last guy in the UK who called them out for quackery spent years fighting a libel suit.
iag 16y ago
For those in the bay area, did you have similar success with muscle training treatments? If so, can you please refer me to a few sources where I can get help starting my regiment? After reading this article I am determined to get my neck and back stronger, just don't know where to start.

43 points by gdee 16y ago

my tl;dr summary - After seeing several doctors and chiropractors for her excruciating back pain, Lucy found that exercise and [re-]building core strength was the answer. The problem was her muscles, not her bones.

gdee 16y ago

responding to csarva(http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1271567)(I http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1271567)(I can't seem to reply to individual messages anymore): >[re-]building core strength That's [re-]building strength in core muscles (the ones that hold your skeleton together)... as opposed to motor muscles(those who move your limbs)... that is the crux of the whole article, and I think it makes a lot of difference. The way you put it leads to think to core moral strength. Edit: The excruciating pain is also not core to the article. In her case, damaged nerves lead to muscle fatigue being manifested in lack of power and quite pointedly lack of pain in certain circumstances when pain was to be expected (though she also describes experiencing said excruciating pain). Edit2: Actually, although the article is interspersed with passages of personal drama (it /is/ a blog post, on /her/ blog) it is also filled with too much information to be easily tl;dr'ed... Also, the post itself is a postmortem style post in which what happened over a long period of time is condensed. Further compression runs high risks of being lossy I think.

noelwelsh 16y ago

Taking a bigger picture: Muscle atrophy is one of the biggest causes of reduced quality of life in the elderly (and also the not so elderly). Women in particular are susceptible to this due to their smaller amount of muscle mass to begin with and the general cultural aversion to women undertaking resistance exercise. My own experience (as a man and admitted gym rat) is that resistance training sorts out my back problem (and generally improves my life in other ways). So, who's for deadlifts? :)

nfnaaron 16y ago
I've (male) been going to they gym almost a year, after 30 years of sloth, it's made a huge difference. I've heard some concern from women who don't want to work out too hard because they don't want to bulk up. I'm no expert, the responses I've heard have generally been something like most women aren't genetically prone to bulking, you're just going to get more fit, stronger and toned. In case there are any women here who have had similar concerns. IMO you're much better off being strong and fit. Working out is not (necessarily) about body building, it's about health, ability and quality of life.
- jules 16y ago
  > they don't want to bulk up This is probably just an excuse for not exercising. I have never seen a woman in real life who would become more attractive by losing muscle, except professional sportswomen (and there's a reasonable chance that those women are using some kind of drug to get more muscles). Actually unless you're fat free you will probably bulk down rather than bulk up.
  - bitwize 16y ago
    Skinny Jessica Biel = just another actress. Jessica Biel with muscles = hot. I for one welcome our new amazon overlords (overladies?) and think there are worse ways to go than death by snu snu.
  - sliverstorm 16y ago
    Agreed- indeed, some of the cutest girls I know could become more attractive still by putting on some more lean muscle. As for whether it's an excuse or not, probably a mix. It could be for many women, fashion trends are convincing them skinny is more attractive than lithe (I love that word, describes it perfectly).
CWuestefeld 16y ago
My experience matches this as well. I used to see a chiropractor for back pain, and honestly it did help a bit. But I started exercising for other reasons, and that marked the real change. I felt better, even without going to the chiro. I can still feel the difference today. If I go on vacation, say, and skip exercise for more than a few days, I can feel soreness and stiffness returning. But once I pick back up the exercising (and stretching, too, I suppose), the discomfort dissipates.

tjic 16y ago

The treatment she got from the government doctors was horrible. This bit gives me chills: "We were told that we would wait at least four months for an NHS appointmen" Uggh. I'm glad that we still have free market doctors here in the US. Well, at least for the next four years.

Super_Jambo 16y ago
There are free market doctors in the UK, I shouldn't worry that all yours will vanish.
amalcon 16y ago
This does not seem unusually high for me. I live in the U.S, in a city with some of the best hospitals in the country, and it looks about median.
- rayval 16y ago
  Agree. I live in a mid-size city with a couple of world-class medical facilities. The waits for specialists are about 3 months.
  - miri 16y ago
    Which is about the same time (well, a little bit more) as the wait times in public hospitals in awfully socialist Norway. State covers 62% of the cost up to a maximum copay, after that they'll pay the rest for you. Having various chronic illnesses, I don't mind this at all.
- Vivtek 16y ago
  Back when my son had some kidney problems, the wait in the States would have been 72 days to see a specialist. In the lousy Hungarian public system, he saw a specialist the week we arrived. (Dual citizenship hath its privileges.) Later, we lived in Puerto Rico, also cursed with a public healthcare system that had us in a specialist's office in two weeks. We're in the US proper now (the real estate is just so damned cheap here and the school system is good for both our kids at the moment) but the lack of working health care will probably drive us out again in a couple of years. The only people who think US health care is good are people who have never experienced any other system.

youngian 16y ago

Does anyone have a link to further information on the muscle repair stuff she cited? The part about how after 25, your brain might just give muscles up for lost?

cracki 16y ago

when i was in high school, i had problems with my back and neck. we were referred to a doctor about this. he sized me up in 5 minutes. then he revealed to us his chiropractor nature and said he'd do his thing. i wasn't asked if that's what i want. it didn't occur to me either, because he's an authority figure, right? so he did his thing. and it got worse. my neck felt bent out of shape and weak. we had to see another doctor who prescribed muscle strength work. because that was the problem. fucked up muscles. why the heck do people still believe in chiropractors? they're all frauds, every single one of them.

cracki 16y ago

and what is it with "waiting months to see a doctor"? i live in germany (socialized health care) and if there's something wrong with you, you either see your GP or walk into the next (teaching) hospital. whatever further referral you need is just days away, if not just an elevator ride and a knock on a door. waiting months, docs who dismiss your opinion, trusting chiropractors... what is wrong with you?

danbmil99 16y ago
England. They beat you in the last war.

naner 16y ago

Well I was going to make some comments on specific parts of this blog post but there is just too much crap. Don't do anything the woman did in this article. Not even what she settled for at the end. She kept looking to quacks for quick-fixes where she didn't have to do any work when in reality all she needed was some physical therapy (which is hard work and a longer process and actually fixes your dysfunction). If you don't want to get into this situation in the first place there are even preventative physical therapy programs like egoscue and specific types of yoga. Avoid joint/bone "manipulators" and all that other new-age BS, though.

danbmil99 16y ago
Sounds to me like her muscle atrophy was preceded by a long period of intense pain due to one or more herniated discs. A proper course of treatment would have included pain killers and muscle relaxants simply to get her to the point where there was less spasm. Then she could have done physical therapy to build up her strength. The Chiropractors here are the most to blame -- they took a bad situation and made it much, much worse. Note that the last guy in the UK who called them out for quackery spent years fighting a libel suit.

iag 16y ago

For those in the bay area, did you have similar success with muscle training treatments? If so, can you please refer me to a few sources where I can get help starting my regiment? After reading this article I am determined to get my neck and back stronger, just don't know where to start.