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> You continue to be extremely insulting and making significant assumptions about my experience. What shibboleth do I have to provide to prove that I know what

> You continue to be extremely insulting and making significant assumptions about my experience. What shibboleth do I have to provide to prove that I know what I'm doing? This inherent assumption that other people don't know anything is incredibly damaging to the industry: I don't assume a SRE is an incompetent programmer, so you shouldn't assume I am barely competent at ops. My mistake for projecting, the comment you posted about sysadmin age being dead gave me the opinion that you think infrastructure is just something you can deploy and forget, again my mistake. I also spoke in my original message that some 10x engineers can do both, but they are not the majority. I guess you're a 10x full stack engineer then. > Like I said in my original comment, I have been the primary on call engineer for multiple projects with millions of users. That's great, so you're a developer, and operations engineer then (devops)? Do you think that developers should be expected to do both? Genuinely curious

morgante 10y ago
> My mistake for projecting, the comment you posted about sysadmin age being dead gave me the opinion that you think infrastructure is just something you can deploy and forget, again my mistake. I didn't mean to imply that. The "who is not also a strong programmer" part of my comment is important. Of course infrastructure breaks, but in the modern era we have the tooling that your next step should be figuring out how to automate things so that never happens again. > Also looking at your linkedin on your profile led me to believe that you worked with small niche infrastructure setups that don't need to scale. I'm not sure where you got that from. As much as people on HN hate Business Insider, it's hardly a "niche" site. And for the record it's not even the biggest site I've worked on. > I also spoke in my original message that some 10x engineers can do both, but they are not the majority. I agree that the majority of engineers can't do both, but I also don't think it's only small minority who can. Infrastructure is just another skill-set that some engineers can/do build. > That's great, so you're a developer, and operations engineer then (devops)? I wouldn't call myself an "operations engineer" but I've done quite a bit of devops work. > Do you think that developers should be expected to do both? Genuinely curious I don't think every engineer should be expected to do both, but I do think at least one developer on every team should have DevOps experience and be capable of coaching the rest of the team. The role of ops teams (if they still exist) should be primarily in building tools/frameworks for the embedded DevOps engineers to use. From that perspective it's much closer to a traditional internal tools team than a traditional ops team.

morgante 10y ago

> My mistake for projecting, the comment you posted about sysadmin age being dead gave me the opinion that you think infrastructure is just something you can deploy and forget, again my mistake. I didn't mean to imply that. The "who is not also a strong programmer" part of my comment is important. Of course infrastructure breaks, but in the modern era we have the tooling that your next step should be figuring out how to automate things so that never happens again. > Also looking at your linkedin on your profile led me to believe that you worked with small niche infrastructure setups that don't need to scale. I'm not sure where you got that from. As much as people on HN hate Business Insider, it's hardly a "niche" site. And for the record it's not even the biggest site I've worked on. > I also spoke in my original message that some 10x engineers can do both, but they are not the majority. I agree that the majority of engineers can't do both, but I also don't think it's only small minority who can. Infrastructure is just another skill-set that some engineers can/do build. > That's great, so you're a developer, and operations engineer then (devops)? I wouldn't call myself an "operations engineer" but I've done quite a bit of devops work. > Do you think that developers should be expected to do both? Genuinely curious I don't think every engineer should be expected to do both, but I do think at least one developer on every team should have DevOps experience and be capable of coaching the rest of the team. The role of ops teams (if they still exist) should be primarily in building tools/frameworks for the embedded DevOps engineers to use. From that perspective it's much closer to a traditional internal tools team than a traditional ops team.