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>But what if they're a hugely over-confident asshole? Then they have absolutely no business working on a team effort. They never should have been hired in the

>But what if they're a hugely over-confident asshole? Then they have absolutely no business working on a team effort. They never should have been hired in the first place.

omginternets 10y ago
And yet here they are. With respect, this doesn't tell us what to do if we run into a hugely over-confident asshole.
- GigabyteCoin 10y ago
  >With respect, this doesn't tell us what to do if we run into a hugely over-confident asshole. Fire them, if you can. Before they poison your entire talent pool with negativity.
aturek 10y ago
I don't agree. I've seen some very junior people change their attitudes rapidly (for the better) when working on a team; if we wrote them off immediately we'd lose out on a lot of promising people. I was also one of those developers and have since changed my ways :)
- GigabyteCoin 10y ago
  Our definitions of "over confident assholes" may differ, perhaps? :) Absolutely however I do agree with you. If a young developer doesn't integrate into a team role immediately, that's no reason to not hire him. A lot of great developers are so great because they've spent years alone with their computers just cranking out code. So the best ones won't have the greatest social skills. But if the kid's still having trouble integrating into their team role after their 6 month probationary period, for example, I personally wouldn't vouch for them any longer.
  - ewjordan 10y ago
    If there are five equally inexperienced applicants in the wings that will get along with everyone without having an attitude-smackdown first, then that's absolutely a reason not to hire them. The worst problems I've ever seen on teams spring from people that are arrogant and standoffish, followed closely by people that are too dogmatic about technical minutiae and best practices in the face of situations that require flexibility (my classic example is the prototyping team that spent two weeks setting up an automated testing and deployment infrastructure, even though they only had six weeks to do their game prototype). I'd take a pleasant junior that's really green but is happy to learn how to code better over a more technically proficient asshole that needs to have manners jammed down their throat any day - tech skills can be taught to a newbie, personality cannot. People have had a couple decades to cement personality habits as junior programmers, so those are mostly fixed, whereas tech skills are super fresh and malleable.
- paulddraper 10y ago
  Yes, we might always change someone: a friend, a spouse, an employee. But that's a risk; depending on that is ill-advised.
dancek 10y ago
Well, part of my point is that assholeness is subjective. Moreover, a certain group of people seem to think there are a lot of assholes, while the majority gets along with most people. Of course, there are genuinely poisonous people, and I agree on your points with regard to them.

>But what if they're a hugely over-confident asshole? Then they have absolutely no business working on a team effort. They never should have been hired in the first place.

omginternets 10y ago

And yet here they are. With respect, this doesn't tell us what to do if we run into a hugely over-confident asshole.

GigabyteCoin 10y ago
>With respect, this doesn't tell us what to do if we run into a hugely over-confident asshole. Fire them, if you can. Before they poison your entire talent pool with negativity.

aturek 10y ago

I don't agree. I've seen some very junior people change their attitudes rapidly (for the better) when working on a team; if we wrote them off immediately we'd lose out on a lot of promising people. I was also one of those developers and have since changed my ways :)

GigabyteCoin 10y ago
Our definitions of "over confident assholes" may differ, perhaps? :) Absolutely however I do agree with you. If a young developer doesn't integrate into a team role immediately, that's no reason to not hire him. A lot of great developers are so great because they've spent years alone with their computers just cranking out code. So the best ones won't have the greatest social skills. But if the kid's still having trouble integrating into their team role after their 6 month probationary period, for example, I personally wouldn't vouch for them any longer.
- ewjordan 10y ago
  If there are five equally inexperienced applicants in the wings that will get along with everyone without having an attitude-smackdown first, then that's absolutely a reason not to hire them. The worst problems I've ever seen on teams spring from people that are arrogant and standoffish, followed closely by people that are too dogmatic about technical minutiae and best practices in the face of situations that require flexibility (my classic example is the prototyping team that spent two weeks setting up an automated testing and deployment infrastructure, even though they only had six weeks to do their game prototype). I'd take a pleasant junior that's really green but is happy to learn how to code better over a more technically proficient asshole that needs to have manners jammed down their throat any day - tech skills can be taught to a newbie, personality cannot. People have had a couple decades to cement personality habits as junior programmers, so those are mostly fixed, whereas tech skills are super fresh and malleable.
paulddraper 10y ago
Yes, we might always change someone: a friend, a spouse, an employee. But that's a risk; depending on that is ill-advised.

dancek 10y ago

Well, part of my point is that assholeness is subjective. Moreover, a certain group of people seem to think there are a lot of assholes, while the majority gets along with most people. Of course, there are genuinely poisonous people, and I agree on your points with regard to them.