3 ms·

Yes, that's very true. Perhaps a good place to start is by not calling yourself CTO.

AndrewKemendo 10y ago
In that case there are no C level offices for startups because the CEO for a 5 person startup doesn't have the same responsibilities as the CEO for Leidos. I think it's tempting for people to just say, well yes that's true, but there is no great line that is crossed that makes the distinction obvious.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- rhizome 10y ago
  It would be revolutionary for startups to start their org chart at the bottom, rather than the top. Programmer and BizDev, who get promoted as the company grows.
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    So you could get a job as Software dev 3 at Google for 250k, or as Programmer1 as a startup for 75k at a new startup.. why would you do the startup? Let's face it.. title is one of the currencies of a startup. You want me to work for below market wage? Sure. I want equity to profit if we succeed, and I want a title that keeps me from having people hired over my head as we grow.
    - greenyoda 10y ago
      "and I want a title that keeps me from having people hired over my head as we grow" I don't think that just a title will protect you. If you can handle managing 5 people but don't have the skills to manage 50 people, it's not going to be in the company's best interests to keep you on as the CTO. So you'll be offered the following options: - Accept a demotion and report to the new CTO - Be fired from your job and get replaced by the new CTO If the company wants to avoid this unpleasantness, they can call your role something other than CTO, e.g., "Director of Development". Then, if the company grows, they can either promote you to CTO or hire a CTO to be your boss, depending on how promising you are.
      - esrauch 10y ago
        I don't understand what the advantage is to have a lower title in your examples though: if you were CTO and someone gets inserted above you then your choices for your resume in your two scenarios are (CTO, then Director) or (only CTO, left company), which are both better than the two scenarios if you didn't have the CTO title (where it would say Director only). If your title is Director someone might reasonably even assume there was a CTO above you at the tiny company, and you were a "director" or "vp" by being actually the absolute lowest man on the totem pole.
        rhizome 10y ago
        Title inflation is a thing making "CTO" almost meaningless, as documented elsewhere. Technical cofounder skills are not the same as CTO skills, so either they can be promoted into the gig when the company grows big enough to need CxOs or they can hire someone with the experience, desire, or greater aptitude.
        esrauch 10y ago
        My latter point was that widespread title inflation has the property that if you "defect" and don't have title inflation it has an actual negative effect on your future employment since it is nearly impossible for a random observer to know whether or not there was title inflation at your company. As meaningless as "CTO" is, having a title worse than that could be seen as non-meaningless as a negative signal.
        rhizome 10y ago
        I think "founding programmer" or similar would counteract negative signals. It would certainly be more accurate.
    - rhizome 10y ago
      To be sure, as someone who is good a greenfielding and hoisting startups, I would never want to be a CTO. Hire people above me, make "cofounder" just a particular percentage of equity and maybe a salary band, an enhancement on whatever my title is. Of course none of this protects me from getting Blaine'd and pushed out, but I figure that's always the case.
njitram 10y ago
That all depends on the definition of a CTO of course, and that definition wildly fluctuates. Most software companies, big and small, startup or very mature, have a CTO, so the title is not reserved for big companies only imho. That does lead to confusion of what the CTO role actually is :)
- rhizome 10y ago
  That all depends on the definition of a CTO of course, and that definition wildly fluctuates. These two things together render the term nearly meaningless.
lucasmullens 10y ago
There's a reason every developer is now an "engineer", people pick what sounds best on their resume.
cmw23 10y ago
But the problem is there isn't a better title. I want a title that indicates that I'm the manager of a group of devs and that I also have final call on the technical side of the company. Any ideas?
- verbify 10y ago
  Head of development.
  - nashadelic 10y ago
    Beat me to it. Using "head" is a good scalable title. It works for both large and small sized organizations and for people who care about titles, it looks good on paper as well.
  - nashadelic 10y ago
    Beat me to it. Using "head" is a good scalable title. It works for both large and small sized organizations and for people who care about titles, it looks good on paper as well.
- jwatte 10y ago
  Chief architect. Director of engineering. VP of engineering.

In that case there are no C level offices for startups because the CEO for a 5 person startup doesn't have the same responsibilities as the CEO for Leidos. I think it's tempting for people to just say, well yes that's true, but there is no great line that is crossed that makes the distinction obvious.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
rhizome 10y ago
It would be revolutionary for startups to start their org chart at the bottom, rather than the top. Programmer and BizDev, who get promoted as the company grows.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  So you could get a job as Software dev 3 at Google for 250k, or as Programmer1 as a startup for 75k at a new startup.. why would you do the startup? Let's face it.. title is one of the currencies of a startup. You want me to work for below market wage? Sure. I want equity to profit if we succeed, and I want a title that keeps me from having people hired over my head as we grow.
  - greenyoda 10y ago
    "and I want a title that keeps me from having people hired over my head as we grow" I don't think that just a title will protect you. If you can handle managing 5 people but don't have the skills to manage 50 people, it's not going to be in the company's best interests to keep you on as the CTO. So you'll be offered the following options: - Accept a demotion and report to the new CTO - Be fired from your job and get replaced by the new CTO If the company wants to avoid this unpleasantness, they can call your role something other than CTO, e.g., "Director of Development". Then, if the company grows, they can either promote you to CTO or hire a CTO to be your boss, depending on how promising you are.
    - esrauch 10y ago
      I don't understand what the advantage is to have a lower title in your examples though: if you were CTO and someone gets inserted above you then your choices for your resume in your two scenarios are (CTO, then Director) or (only CTO, left company), which are both better than the two scenarios if you didn't have the CTO title (where it would say Director only). If your title is Director someone might reasonably even assume there was a CTO above you at the tiny company, and you were a "director" or "vp" by being actually the absolute lowest man on the totem pole.
      - rhizome 10y ago
        Title inflation is a thing making "CTO" almost meaningless, as documented elsewhere. Technical cofounder skills are not the same as CTO skills, so either they can be promoted into the gig when the company grows big enough to need CxOs or they can hire someone with the experience, desire, or greater aptitude.
        esrauch 10y ago
        My latter point was that widespread title inflation has the property that if you "defect" and don't have title inflation it has an actual negative effect on your future employment since it is nearly impossible for a random observer to know whether or not there was title inflation at your company. As meaningless as "CTO" is, having a title worse than that could be seen as non-meaningless as a negative signal.
        rhizome 10y ago
        I think "founding programmer" or similar would counteract negative signals. It would certainly be more accurate.
  - rhizome 10y ago
    To be sure, as someone who is good a greenfielding and hoisting startups, I would never want to be a CTO. Hire people above me, make "cofounder" just a particular percentage of equity and maybe a salary band, an enhancement on whatever my title is. Of course none of this protects me from getting Blaine'd and pushed out, but I figure that's always the case.

njitram 10y ago

That all depends on the definition of a CTO of course, and that definition wildly fluctuates. Most software companies, big and small, startup or very mature, have a CTO, so the title is not reserved for big companies only imho. That does lead to confusion of what the CTO role actually is :)

rhizome 10y ago
That all depends on the definition of a CTO of course, and that definition wildly fluctuates. These two things together render the term nearly meaningless.

lucasmullens 10y ago

There's a reason every developer is now an "engineer", people pick what sounds best on their resume.

cmw23 10y ago

But the problem is there isn't a better title. I want a title that indicates that I'm the manager of a group of devs and that I also have final call on the technical side of the company. Any ideas?

verbify 10y ago
Head of development.
- nashadelic 10y ago
  Beat me to it. Using "head" is a good scalable title. It works for both large and small sized organizations and for people who care about titles, it looks good on paper as well.
- nashadelic 10y ago
  Beat me to it. Using "head" is a good scalable title. It works for both large and small sized organizations and for people who care about titles, it looks good on paper as well.
jwatte 10y ago
Chief architect. Director of engineering. VP of engineering.