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How do you deal with the case of product coming up with a modal that needs to be scrolled even on a 1080p screen? It's certainly a UX decision and an incredibly

by joesmo 10y ago

How do you deal with the case of product coming up with a modal that needs to be scrolled even on a 1080p screen? It's certainly a UX decision and an incredibly stupid one. Should the developers implement it only to have everyone else realize how stupid it is after wasting hours or days? Or should there be someone who can stand up to product and tell them, hell no, we will not implement this stupidity? This is a real example from a real job I had. I don't need to tell you which way this originally went (we built it and of course tore it down a week later). The height or width of a modal is not a technical decision, but it's also not a product decision. You can have a dedicated UI/UX guy, but that adds a lot of cost most companies can't or won't afford. This is where the CTO, or in larger organizations, a manager under the CTO, would step up and tell product what a terrible idea their modal is and that they need to redo it before engineering considers it. If engineering can't make common sense decisions because its hands are tied and product can't make them because they're not qualified, where does that leave you with your system (the system you describe is extremely common)?

tensor 10y ago
The answer is dedicated UX people. If a company decides UX isn't important to hire expertise in then I'd say it's not a company you want to work for. Every product is designed, but if you have no UX people then the design is done either by product managers or by technical people, neither of whom are qualified to be doing that.
- joesmo 10y ago
  Ok, but what about in a startup / limited budget scenario where you can't afford dedicated UX people, something that is often the case?
  - tensor 10y ago
    Then you pick the person on the team most interested in design and get them to learn how to do design right. They become 50-75% design and the rest whatever they were doing before. Being good at development or some other domain doesn't necessarily correlate with being good at design. Developers understand that their trade takes time and effort to learn, it amazes me that some of them can't understand that it's the same for other domains.
    - joesmo 10y ago
      But we already have engineering experts in the field telling product it's not a good idea. The problem isn't the lack of expertise, it's the lack of ability to push back on a stupid task. The point is, there is no mediation here. If a UI/UX person can tell them what a bad idea is, so should an engineer be able to. Thus, engineering cannot be the slave of product in an effective organization and product that insists on its pixel perfect designs is by definition low quality (because nobody is perfect).

by joesmo 10y ago

tensor 10y ago

The answer is dedicated UX people. If a company decides UX isn't important to hire expertise in then I'd say it's not a company you want to work for. Every product is designed, but if you have no UX people then the design is done either by product managers or by technical people, neither of whom are qualified to be doing that.

joesmo 10y ago
Ok, but what about in a startup / limited budget scenario where you can't afford dedicated UX people, something that is often the case?
- tensor 10y ago
  Then you pick the person on the team most interested in design and get them to learn how to do design right. They become 50-75% design and the rest whatever they were doing before. Being good at development or some other domain doesn't necessarily correlate with being good at design. Developers understand that their trade takes time and effort to learn, it amazes me that some of them can't understand that it's the same for other domains.
  - joesmo 10y ago
    But we already have engineering experts in the field telling product it's not a good idea. The problem isn't the lack of expertise, it's the lack of ability to push back on a stupid task. The point is, there is no mediation here. If a UI/UX person can tell them what a bad idea is, so should an engineer be able to. Thus, engineering cannot be the slave of product in an effective organization and product that insists on its pixel perfect designs is by definition low quality (because nobody is perfect).