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Orin Kerr is the country's leading attorney on Computer Crime Law(1) and The Volokh Conspiracy writers are a powerhouse in Constitutional Law generally. Its a

Orin Kerr is the country's leading attorney on Computer Crime Law(1) and The Volokh Conspiracy writers are a powerhouse in Constitutional Law generally. Its almost certainly too late for Vachani and Power Ventures; Facebook have destroyed them, and any ruling is only symbolic, but for the rest of us, a correct ruling is essential for the future of a free Internet. Here is Orin Kerr writing about Power Ventures: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/07/12/9th-circuit-its-a-federal-crime-to-visit-a-website-after-being-told-not-to-visit-it/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201... 1) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/10/13/the-path-of-computer-crime-law/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...

jsprogrammer 10y ago
Power Ventures could probably start back up from the payout that will be coming from FB when things are resolved.
- Sacho 10y ago
  Uh, what payout? The 9th circuit essentially ruled that his attempts to access Facebook servers after the cease-and-desist letter were illegal. Unless I'm reading this wrong, he lost, and is criminally liable.
  - CapitalistCartr 10y ago
    Its resolved when SCOTUS rules, but I don't hold high hopes. I think a payout is unlikely, and anything much beyond legal fees is in lottery territory.
  - jsprogrammer 10y ago
    Facebook brought a malicious action under the CANSPAM act when it had no basis for doing so. That action, in part, resulted in the loss of Vachani's business and livelihood. Facebook will need to compensate for the loss they caused.
    - mcherm 10y ago
      > it had no basis for doing so Several lower level judges disagreed with you. Although I think that the CANSPAM act ought not apply, there is no basis to claim that this was clearly settled law being ignored to make this into a malicious action.
      - jsprogrammer 10y ago
        And high judges agree. Facebook claimed[0] that emails it sent to its users were misleading, partly, because Facebook inserted "Thanks,\nThe Facebook Team" into messages it sent out as a result of Power.com's actions. Facebook claimed[0], 64. The message, drafted by Power.com, is signed by "The Facebook Team", which is both misleading and false. If the findings [1] of the higher judges are correct, then it appears that Facebook previously argued that it constructed false evidence against Power.com -- and used it in a legal attack that destroyed Vachani's life. [0] http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/technology/20090102_FacebookComplaint.pdf http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/technology/2009010... [1] https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2016/07/12/13-17102.pdf https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2016/07/12/1...
        Steeeve 10y ago
        The message is at page 10 of the PDF on link[0] above, page 12 of the complaint. (pdf and complaint page numbers don't match up) It's clear to me that this was a spam/phishing message. 1. Comes from @facebookmail.com 2. Signed "The Facebook Team" 3. Includes only links to facebook. 4. In the footer, "Want to control which messages you receive from facebook..." facebook link. --- Now, they obviously created a facebook event as a promotion and invited people on facebook to that event in order to generate those messages, so there is a bit of a grey area, but it's clearly a power.com email and there's no message of power.com other than: Event: Bring 100 Friends and win 100 bucks What: Reunion Host: Power Start Time: date End Time: date Where: Power --- It's an unethical use of Facebook's systems at the very least, and spells out a pretty big hole (hopefully filled by now) that opens facebook users up to scams because the originator is obfuscated.
War_Machine 10y ago
After Power's IP addresses were blocked by Facebook, couldn't Power use the user as proxy to access Facebook instead? In other words, have the user (through some Power provided tool I suppose) access Facebook and feed Power the information it wants to send.
- sjg007 10y ago
  You could probably do so with a browser extension.
  - deveshparekh 10y ago
    I made a quick hack to demonstrate this a few years ago. I didn't maintain it and couldn't find another developer to take over, so it doesn't work anymore. http://devesh.github.io/SuperShareBox/ http://devesh.github.io/SuperShareBox/
- downandout 10y ago
  The problem is that this probably violates Facebook's TOS. Enabling a TOS violation for users as a business model would make for a pretty easy tortious interference lawsuit by Facebook against Power.
  - wtallis 10y ago
    It seems like it would be pretty hard to draft TOS that prohibit the user from running a program on their own machine that requests, processes, and outputs data on the user's behalf without banning more traditional user agents like web browsers and proxies.
    - downandout 10y ago
      If I remember correctly, Facebook prohibits users from supplying third parties with their Facebook Login credentials for the purpose of that third party logging in on their behalf. Edit: From Section 4(8) of the Facebook TOS [1]: "You will not share your password (or in the case of developers, your secret key), let anyone else access your account, or do anything else that might jeopardize the security of your account." [1] https://www.facebook.com/legal/terms https://www.facebook.com/legal/terms

jsprogrammer 10y ago

Power Ventures could probably start back up from the payout that will be coming from FB when things are resolved.

Sacho 10y ago
Uh, what payout? The 9th circuit essentially ruled that his attempts to access Facebook servers after the cease-and-desist letter were illegal. Unless I'm reading this wrong, he lost, and is criminally liable.
- CapitalistCartr 10y ago
  Its resolved when SCOTUS rules, but I don't hold high hopes. I think a payout is unlikely, and anything much beyond legal fees is in lottery territory.
- jsprogrammer 10y ago
  Facebook brought a malicious action under the CANSPAM act when it had no basis for doing so. That action, in part, resulted in the loss of Vachani's business and livelihood. Facebook will need to compensate for the loss they caused.
  - mcherm 10y ago
    > it had no basis for doing so Several lower level judges disagreed with you. Although I think that the CANSPAM act ought not apply, there is no basis to claim that this was clearly settled law being ignored to make this into a malicious action.
    - jsprogrammer 10y ago
      And high judges agree. Facebook claimed[0] that emails it sent to its users were misleading, partly, because Facebook inserted "Thanks,\nThe Facebook Team" into messages it sent out as a result of Power.com's actions. Facebook claimed[0], 64. The message, drafted by Power.com, is signed by "The Facebook Team", which is both misleading and false. If the findings [1] of the higher judges are correct, then it appears that Facebook previously argued that it constructed false evidence against Power.com -- and used it in a legal attack that destroyed Vachani's life. [0] http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/technology/20090102_FacebookComplaint.pdf http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/technology/2009010... [1] https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2016/07/12/13-17102.pdf https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2016/07/12/1...
      - Steeeve 10y ago
        The message is at page 10 of the PDF on link[0] above, page 12 of the complaint. (pdf and complaint page numbers don't match up) It's clear to me that this was a spam/phishing message. 1. Comes from @facebookmail.com 2. Signed "The Facebook Team" 3. Includes only links to facebook. 4. In the footer, "Want to control which messages you receive from facebook..." facebook link. --- Now, they obviously created a facebook event as a promotion and invited people on facebook to that event in order to generate those messages, so there is a bit of a grey area, but it's clearly a power.com email and there's no message of power.com other than: Event: Bring 100 Friends and win 100 bucks What: Reunion Host: Power Start Time: date End Time: date Where: Power --- It's an unethical use of Facebook's systems at the very least, and spells out a pretty big hole (hopefully filled by now) that opens facebook users up to scams because the originator is obfuscated.

War_Machine 10y ago

After Power's IP addresses were blocked by Facebook, couldn't Power use the user as proxy to access Facebook instead? In other words, have the user (through some Power provided tool I suppose) access Facebook and feed Power the information it wants to send.

sjg007 10y ago
You could probably do so with a browser extension.
- deveshparekh 10y ago
  I made a quick hack to demonstrate this a few years ago. I didn't maintain it and couldn't find another developer to take over, so it doesn't work anymore. http://devesh.github.io/SuperShareBox/ http://devesh.github.io/SuperShareBox/
downandout 10y ago
The problem is that this probably violates Facebook's TOS. Enabling a TOS violation for users as a business model would make for a pretty easy tortious interference lawsuit by Facebook against Power.
- wtallis 10y ago
  It seems like it would be pretty hard to draft TOS that prohibit the user from running a program on their own machine that requests, processes, and outputs data on the user's behalf without banning more traditional user agents like web browsers and proxies.
  - downandout 10y ago
    If I remember correctly, Facebook prohibits users from supplying third parties with their Facebook Login credentials for the purpose of that third party logging in on their behalf. Edit: From Section 4(8) of the Facebook TOS [1]: "You will not share your password (or in the case of developers, your secret key), let anyone else access your account, or do anything else that might jeopardize the security of your account." [1] https://www.facebook.com/legal/terms https://www.facebook.com/legal/terms