9 ms·

It's not the same, but it is a powerful metaphor. Wanted email is to consensual relations as spam is to physical violation.

paulddraper 10y ago
No, spam is more akin to door-to-door soliciting.
- ht85 10y ago
  Yeah, only door-to-door soliciting to a point where you have to jostle a crowd of people whenever you try to exit your property through the main door, and they try everything in their power not to budge.
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    > try everything in their power not to budge The first part I get, but this I don't. Deleting an email is a mouseclick. A lot easier than getting the pest control guy off my doorstep.
    - ht85 10y ago
      I was thinking about the fact that the spammers always find new creative ways to dodge anti-spam, but you're right that second part wasn't great.
    - al_chemist 10y ago
      > The first part I get, but this I don't. Deleting an email is a mouseclick. If you really believe it, please share your primary e-mail address here.
      - paulddraper 10y ago
        And share with me your residential address.
kazinator 10y ago
It's a very bad metaphor, because the "spammer" term is thrown around casually in IT and is often false. For instance, someone might be called a "spammer" if they post a lot to some forum, by someone else who disagrees with them. If you equate "rapist" with "spammer", you might be regarded as trivializing "rapist" accusations as being usually false and frivolous in the same way.
- Retric 10y ago
  Spammers steal life a few seconds at a time. Considering the amount of time wasted they literally waste lifetimes in aggregate. However, we don't equate say deaths from pollution as murder so it feels like a minor crime.
- ghurtado 10y ago
  > If you equate "rapist" with "spammer", you might be regarded as trivializing "rapist" accusations as being usually false and frivolous in the same way. I don't think he was equating the two at a legal or moral level, just presenting an analogy with regards to: - The likelihood of false accusations being similar in both cases (higher than the norm) - The devastating social consequences of falsely accusing someone of either crime, even where no proof exists Having said that, there are circles where false accusations of "rape" are sometimes thrown around rather frivolously, and where the term is being stretched to include other lesser crimes, such as crimes of expression ("verbal rape") and sexual harassment. You may not be familiar with these circles, but they do exist. If you've ever heard someone use the term "he raped me with his eyes": this is the action that trivializes the actual crime of rape. Making the observation that this subculture exists in no way trivializes actual cases of rape. I think this may have been the intent of the analogy.
  - dalke 10y ago
    Even when considered only as an analogy, and not the serious point about trivializing "rapist", it's a lousy analogy. Consider a panhandler asking you for money on the street, someone passing out fliers in a mall, a street hawker, or even someone asking for directions. These can all be unwanted physical interactions. Think also of the religious people who go door-to-door asking very politely if you've found everlasting life, or historically (thinking now of the Hare Krishnas and the movie 'Airplane') at an airport terminal. Or for that matter, someone working in a boiler room call centers. I submit that spamming is much closer to these unwanted public interactions than anything like rape. Furthermore, calling someone a spammer does not have "devastating social consequences", despite what Vachani said. For example, stand up at a conference and yell "the speaker is a spammer!" What devastating social consequences might the speaker face? Is it as devastating as calling someone a speeder, a pot smoker, a thief, a rapist, or a murderer?
DanBC 10y ago
It's a fucking stupid metaphor that acts as a barrier to understanding. People should stop casually making jokes about rape[1] or using rape as a metaphor. [1] It's baffling to me that crimes of sexual violence are a common theme for jokes on US media.
- ghurtado 10y ago
  IMHO what is really needed in this topic is for people to stop having a violent allergic reaction every time the word "rape" is mentioned. This debases the conversation much more than all the jokes and inept metaphors that have ever been made about rape. At least those don't intentionally attempt to censor or silence others they disagree with.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - aseipp 10y ago
    "Words don't real. Don't analyze them. That's not important. You're the real problem."
- kefka 10y ago
  As and aside, it also disgusts me that male-male rape is used as an additional punishment in prison, and is seen as a wide positive side effect in the "law-and-order" types. Ive seen plenty show and movies that talk how "Bubba is going to ravage you". Because a prison sentence needs to have a side source of rape.
  - anon12345690 10y ago
    Have you actually ever been to prison? Rape inside is nowhere near as common as you think. Prison code and rules are often more fairly enforced than actual laws outside. It's easier to get into prison than to get hurt inside for being innocent of your accused actions.

paulddraper 10y ago

No, spam is more akin to door-to-door soliciting.

ht85 10y ago
Yeah, only door-to-door soliciting to a point where you have to jostle a crowd of people whenever you try to exit your property through the main door, and they try everything in their power not to budge.
- paulddraper 10y ago
  > try everything in their power not to budge The first part I get, but this I don't. Deleting an email is a mouseclick. A lot easier than getting the pest control guy off my doorstep.
  - ht85 10y ago
    I was thinking about the fact that the spammers always find new creative ways to dodge anti-spam, but you're right that second part wasn't great.
  - al_chemist 10y ago
    > The first part I get, but this I don't. Deleting an email is a mouseclick. If you really believe it, please share your primary e-mail address here.
    - paulddraper 10y ago
      And share with me your residential address.

kazinator 10y ago

It's a very bad metaphor, because the "spammer" term is thrown around casually in IT and is often false. For instance, someone might be called a "spammer" if they post a lot to some forum, by someone else who disagrees with them. If you equate "rapist" with "spammer", you might be regarded as trivializing "rapist" accusations as being usually false and frivolous in the same way.

Retric 10y ago
Spammers steal life a few seconds at a time. Considering the amount of time wasted they literally waste lifetimes in aggregate. However, we don't equate say deaths from pollution as murder so it feels like a minor crime.
ghurtado 10y ago
> If you equate "rapist" with "spammer", you might be regarded as trivializing "rapist" accusations as being usually false and frivolous in the same way. I don't think he was equating the two at a legal or moral level, just presenting an analogy with regards to: - The likelihood of false accusations being similar in both cases (higher than the norm) - The devastating social consequences of falsely accusing someone of either crime, even where no proof exists Having said that, there are circles where false accusations of "rape" are sometimes thrown around rather frivolously, and where the term is being stretched to include other lesser crimes, such as crimes of expression ("verbal rape") and sexual harassment. You may not be familiar with these circles, but they do exist. If you've ever heard someone use the term "he raped me with his eyes": this is the action that trivializes the actual crime of rape. Making the observation that this subculture exists in no way trivializes actual cases of rape. I think this may have been the intent of the analogy.
- dalke 10y ago
  Even when considered only as an analogy, and not the serious point about trivializing "rapist", it's a lousy analogy. Consider a panhandler asking you for money on the street, someone passing out fliers in a mall, a street hawker, or even someone asking for directions. These can all be unwanted physical interactions. Think also of the religious people who go door-to-door asking very politely if you've found everlasting life, or historically (thinking now of the Hare Krishnas and the movie 'Airplane') at an airport terminal. Or for that matter, someone working in a boiler room call centers. I submit that spamming is much closer to these unwanted public interactions than anything like rape. Furthermore, calling someone a spammer does not have "devastating social consequences", despite what Vachani said. For example, stand up at a conference and yell "the speaker is a spammer!" What devastating social consequences might the speaker face? Is it as devastating as calling someone a speeder, a pot smoker, a thief, a rapist, or a murderer?

DanBC 10y ago

It's a fucking stupid metaphor that acts as a barrier to understanding. People should stop casually making jokes about rape[1] or using rape as a metaphor. [1] It's baffling to me that crimes of sexual violence are a common theme for jokes on US media.

ghurtado 10y ago
IMHO what is really needed in this topic is for people to stop having a violent allergic reaction every time the word "rape" is mentioned. This debases the conversation much more than all the jokes and inept metaphors that have ever been made about rape. At least those don't intentionally attempt to censor or silence others they disagree with.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- aseipp 10y ago
  "Words don't real. Don't analyze them. That's not important. You're the real problem."
kefka 10y ago
As and aside, it also disgusts me that male-male rape is used as an additional punishment in prison, and is seen as a wide positive side effect in the "law-and-order" types. Ive seen plenty show and movies that talk how "Bubba is going to ravage you". Because a prison sentence needs to have a side source of rape.
- anon12345690 10y ago
  Have you actually ever been to prison? Rape inside is nowhere near as common as you think. Prison code and rules are often more fairly enforced than actual laws outside. It's easier to get into prison than to get hurt inside for being innocent of your accused actions.