6 ms·

> To fly Orion you have to put hundreds of nuclear explosives in orbit and pinky-swear that you're not going to use them to obliterate your enemies. To reiter

> To fly Orion you have to put hundreds of nuclear explosives in orbit and pinky-swear that you're not going to use them to obliterate your enemies. To reiterate berntb's point: Every nation who has the ability to do this already has ICBMs that can deliver nukes anywhere on the planet in 20 minutes. So what difference does this make?

DennisP 10y ago
True, but we still have a treaty that prohibits bombs in orbit, because they'd reduce the warning time enough to threaten deterrence. Maybe one day we can launch Orion from Mars.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Drive it to Earth, have lots of bombs left. From a strategic point of view, what's the difference between building on Mars and building it in orbit? Obviously there is a difference because the hostile faction has to seize control of it and move it to Earth, but once they do that, the calculation becomes the same. Do you commit to obliterating them the second they start moving it to Earth?
  - masklinn 10y ago
    Best case scenario, Mars is 55 million kilometres from earth. Even using a ridiculous engine going full blast the whole way (in which case your payload will probably disintegrate when it hits the atmosphere) you won't get the transfer time under a month. If you want to actually deliver your payload in a useful manner you'll need twice that at the very least. 2+ months is a long lead time, and the engine you'll need will make the craft impossible to miss. What's the difference to building it in orbit? Building it in earth orbit you're dropping it from under 500km and your assembly makes 10~20 orbits a day, you can deliver it quickly at pretty much any time. The former allows countermeasure, the latter not really.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      I'm talking about just flying the entire Orion ship to Earth, loaded with propellant bombs. Sure, you can try to take it out during the journey, but that may be complicated by it being the highest g ship in existence for the Mars-Earth distance. Once/if it arrives, you have the same strategic problems you have if you build it in orbit.
      - masklinn 10y ago
        > I'm talking about just flying the entire Orion ship to Earth, loaded with propellant bombs. Er… yes? > Sure, you can try to take it out during the journey, but that may be complicated by it being the highest g ship in existence for the Mars-Earth distance. That's not really a complication, it's still taking months to make the trip, and while it might be "the highest g ship in existence" that's linear acceleration, it's not a nimble ship performing a tailside in space to avoid projectiles. > Once/if it arrives, you have the same strategic problems you have if you build it in orbit. With the pretty damn big difference that you've had several months head start knowing the think was incoming at high speed instead of it just dropping of your head more or less instantly.
        maxerickson 10y ago
        Er… yes? Sorry, I didn't understand why you were talking about bothering to do that and then crashing it into the atmosphere.
        masklinn 10y ago
        If you're crashing it into the atmosphere you're not delivering anything, the ship and its payload will just disintegrate, possibly bouncing back in the process. Even if the payload does detonate on impact, the only purpose an explosion at atmospheric boundaries would have would be EMP.
        Pinckney 10y ago
  - smithy44 10y ago
    Empress Sato!!

DennisP 10y ago

True, but we still have a treaty that prohibits bombs in orbit, because they'd reduce the warning time enough to threaten deterrence. Maybe one day we can launch Orion from Mars.

maxerickson 10y ago
Drive it to Earth, have lots of bombs left. From a strategic point of view, what's the difference between building on Mars and building it in orbit? Obviously there is a difference because the hostile faction has to seize control of it and move it to Earth, but once they do that, the calculation becomes the same. Do you commit to obliterating them the second they start moving it to Earth?
- masklinn 10y ago
  Best case scenario, Mars is 55 million kilometres from earth. Even using a ridiculous engine going full blast the whole way (in which case your payload will probably disintegrate when it hits the atmosphere) you won't get the transfer time under a month. If you want to actually deliver your payload in a useful manner you'll need twice that at the very least. 2+ months is a long lead time, and the engine you'll need will make the craft impossible to miss. What's the difference to building it in orbit? Building it in earth orbit you're dropping it from under 500km and your assembly makes 10~20 orbits a day, you can deliver it quickly at pretty much any time. The former allows countermeasure, the latter not really.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    I'm talking about just flying the entire Orion ship to Earth, loaded with propellant bombs. Sure, you can try to take it out during the journey, but that may be complicated by it being the highest g ship in existence for the Mars-Earth distance. Once/if it arrives, you have the same strategic problems you have if you build it in orbit.
    - masklinn 10y ago
      > I'm talking about just flying the entire Orion ship to Earth, loaded with propellant bombs. Er… yes? > Sure, you can try to take it out during the journey, but that may be complicated by it being the highest g ship in existence for the Mars-Earth distance. That's not really a complication, it's still taking months to make the trip, and while it might be "the highest g ship in existence" that's linear acceleration, it's not a nimble ship performing a tailside in space to avoid projectiles. > Once/if it arrives, you have the same strategic problems you have if you build it in orbit. With the pretty damn big difference that you've had several months head start knowing the think was incoming at high speed instead of it just dropping of your head more or less instantly.
      - maxerickson 10y ago
        Er… yes? Sorry, I didn't understand why you were talking about bothering to do that and then crashing it into the atmosphere.
        masklinn 10y ago
        If you're crashing it into the atmosphere you're not delivering anything, the ship and its payload will just disintegrate, possibly bouncing back in the process. Even if the payload does detonate on impact, the only purpose an explosion at atmospheric boundaries would have would be EMP.
        Pinckney 10y ago
- smithy44 10y ago
  Empress Sato!!