5 ms·

Ignoring the errors in the article, what can we do? Due to the selfishness and shortsightedness of our race, I think the only way we are not totally screwed is

by kodroid 10y ago

Ignoring the errors in the article, what can we do? Due to the selfishness and shortsightedness of our race, I think the only way we are not totally screwed is if we (quickly) invent some tech that cleans up the atmosphere and oceans - not an easy task!

lucozade 10y ago
> if we (quickly) invent some tech that cleans up the atmosphere and oceans Unfortunately this is based on the same logic that says re-writing from scratch is optimal as there's no bugs in code you haven't written yet. As unhelpful as this may be, I would characterise our current state of knowledge as: we know enough about how our planet works to know that our planet's climate is changing largely due to our activity. We don't know enough to know what we can do that won't have (nasty) unintended consequences. It makes me sad that I can conclude this but I don't see any evidence that I can't.
- adrianN 10y ago
  I think bringing CO2 down to pre-industrial times would be a pretty save bet. If we had a source of massive CO2-free power we could extract CO2 from the atmosphere and turn it back into coal, effectively unburning all the coal and oil that we burned so far. Technology that tries to undo climate change without that is what's risky.
  - pantalaimon 10y ago
    > If we had a source of massive CO2-free power we could extract CO2 from the atmosphere and turn it back into coal, effectively unburning all the coal and oil that we burned so far. aka photosynthesis
  - jsingleton 10y ago
    We already have this technology, burning biomass with CCS [^0] as just one example. Synthesising methane with solar/wind energy, burning it and feeding the exhaust into greenhouses to grow crops as another. It just needs deploying at scale. This is not a technology problem. It is a political/economic problem. And it can be solved given the will. [^0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_capture_and_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_capture_and_storage
    - NoGravitas 10y ago
      Yeah, it seems like the best currently available solution would be to dedicate a lot of land to growing some plant that captures carbon as fast as possible (hemp is probably faster than trees; bamboo maybe faster than hemp; there might be some algae that is faster than bamboo?); make charcoal out of it to stabilize it, and bury it. Busy-loop on this as fast as you can. A lot of the CCS technologies I've seen focus on carbon-neutral energy generation. But we need to be going carbon-negative even if it costs some (solar/wind) energy.
      - ohyes 10y ago
        Kudzu maybe? Problem here being that we grow things with potash, which is derived from fossil fuels afaik.
6nf 10y ago
We will do nothing, it's too late.
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  Not true. We will continue accelerating until the impending crash is blindingly obvious. By which time it is far too late.
tbihl 10y ago
Or find a way to colonize new planets. Your solution sounds more far-fetched to me, as sad as that is.
Cthulhu_ 10y ago
I don't like the "our race" generalisation, not when there's so many people committed to reducing carbon emissions and what-have-you; billions, if not trillions are being invested in creating clean alternatives, projects get both community and government support everywhere, countries are banning coal power plants and promoting and subsidising solar, wind and water power, big scientific teams are dedicating their lives on making nuclear fusion feasible, consumers and companies are encouraged to use electric cars or penalised for using fossil fuel cars, etc etc etc. There's also still some establishments that keep the economy and power grid going, but they'll be gone within 50 years if this keeps up. There's also rising economies that don't give a fuck because they're trying to catch up with the rest of the world. So yeah, I guess I take offense to blaming everyone. I see this "baw humanity sucks" far too much - that's both insulting to yourself (do you suck? are you causing climate change?) and to those that try and make things better for all of us.
- ivanhoe 10y ago
  Rising economies don't give a fuck, but first they're still relatively small, and second it's not them that got us all here. Developed countries invest a lot now, but they've been polluting the world for decades/centuries and even now their footprint is still the significant part of the global emission. Only a few very underdeveloped countries can truly say: "Hey, don't blame us, we had nothing to do with it". The rest of the world is guilty as charged.
- kodroid 10y ago
  > I don't like the "our race" generalisation, , not when there's so many people committed to reducing carbon emissions and what-have-you... From my perspective, on the whole, there are much less people who are providing even part of a solution than there are who are contributing to the problem. The race as a whole has an extremely negative impact on the planet and its co-habiting species. I am extremely indebted to those who have devoted their lives to finding solutions to this problem, but they seem to me very much the minority. > There's also still some establishments that keep the economy and power grid going, but they'll be gone within 50 years if this keeps up. There's also rising economies that don't give a fuck because they're trying to catch up with the rest of the world. Yup. Most of the major governments around the world and the largest corporations. Many of the rising economies are in this positing due to the selfishness of the historical actions of the leaders of countries with strong economies. > So yeah, I guess I take offense to blaming everyone. I see this "baw humanity sucks" far too much.. Well, it think it is the majorities fault at the moment. Yes its not a productive viewpoint, but an accurate one. > that's both insulting to yourself (do you suck? are you causing climate change?) and to those that try and make things better for all of us. "suck" is your wording, but yes I am selfish in terms of my environmental impact, much like the average person in any developed nation. I engage in activities which have negative effects on the environment without balancing these effects. From the thousands of people I have met in my life, I cant think of one who has a positive net effect on the environment - hence, people are stupid, including me :p
coldpie 10y ago
If you're in the US, you can be sure to vote for politicians that acknowledge that global warming is happening this November. It's not much, but it's a start. Hint: Such politicians will not have an R next to their name. Denying climate change is part of their core platform: https://prod-static-ngop-pbl.s3.amazonaws.com/static/home/data/platform.pdf https://prod-static-ngop-pbl.s3.amazonaws.com/static/home/da...

by kodroid 10y ago

lucozade 10y ago

> if we (quickly) invent some tech that cleans up the atmosphere and oceans Unfortunately this is based on the same logic that says re-writing from scratch is optimal as there's no bugs in code you haven't written yet. As unhelpful as this may be, I would characterise our current state of knowledge as: we know enough about how our planet works to know that our planet's climate is changing largely due to our activity. We don't know enough to know what we can do that won't have (nasty) unintended consequences. It makes me sad that I can conclude this but I don't see any evidence that I can't.

adrianN 10y ago
I think bringing CO2 down to pre-industrial times would be a pretty save bet. If we had a source of massive CO2-free power we could extract CO2 from the atmosphere and turn it back into coal, effectively unburning all the coal and oil that we burned so far. Technology that tries to undo climate change without that is what's risky.
- pantalaimon 10y ago
  > If we had a source of massive CO2-free power we could extract CO2 from the atmosphere and turn it back into coal, effectively unburning all the coal and oil that we burned so far. aka photosynthesis
- jsingleton 10y ago
  We already have this technology, burning biomass with CCS [^0] as just one example. Synthesising methane with solar/wind energy, burning it and feeding the exhaust into greenhouses to grow crops as another. It just needs deploying at scale. This is not a technology problem. It is a political/economic problem. And it can be solved given the will. [^0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_capture_and_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_capture_and_storage
  - NoGravitas 10y ago
    Yeah, it seems like the best currently available solution would be to dedicate a lot of land to growing some plant that captures carbon as fast as possible (hemp is probably faster than trees; bamboo maybe faster than hemp; there might be some algae that is faster than bamboo?); make charcoal out of it to stabilize it, and bury it. Busy-loop on this as fast as you can. A lot of the CCS technologies I've seen focus on carbon-neutral energy generation. But we need to be going carbon-negative even if it costs some (solar/wind) energy.
    - ohyes 10y ago
      Kudzu maybe? Problem here being that we grow things with potash, which is derived from fossil fuels afaik.

6nf 10y ago

We will do nothing, it's too late.

anexprogrammer 10y ago
Not true. We will continue accelerating until the impending crash is blindingly obvious. By which time it is far too late.

tbihl 10y ago

Or find a way to colonize new planets. Your solution sounds more far-fetched to me, as sad as that is.

Cthulhu_ 10y ago

I don't like the "our race" generalisation, not when there's so many people committed to reducing carbon emissions and what-have-you; billions, if not trillions are being invested in creating clean alternatives, projects get both community and government support everywhere, countries are banning coal power plants and promoting and subsidising solar, wind and water power, big scientific teams are dedicating their lives on making nuclear fusion feasible, consumers and companies are encouraged to use electric cars or penalised for using fossil fuel cars, etc etc etc. There's also still some establishments that keep the economy and power grid going, but they'll be gone within 50 years if this keeps up. There's also rising economies that don't give a fuck because they're trying to catch up with the rest of the world. So yeah, I guess I take offense to blaming everyone. I see this "baw humanity sucks" far too much - that's both insulting to yourself (do you suck? are you causing climate change?) and to those that try and make things better for all of us.

ivanhoe 10y ago
Rising economies don't give a fuck, but first they're still relatively small, and second it's not them that got us all here. Developed countries invest a lot now, but they've been polluting the world for decades/centuries and even now their footprint is still the significant part of the global emission. Only a few very underdeveloped countries can truly say: "Hey, don't blame us, we had nothing to do with it". The rest of the world is guilty as charged.
kodroid 10y ago
> I don't like the "our race" generalisation, , not when there's so many people committed to reducing carbon emissions and what-have-you... From my perspective, on the whole, there are much less people who are providing even part of a solution than there are who are contributing to the problem. The race as a whole has an extremely negative impact on the planet and its co-habiting species. I am extremely indebted to those who have devoted their lives to finding solutions to this problem, but they seem to me very much the minority. > There's also still some establishments that keep the economy and power grid going, but they'll be gone within 50 years if this keeps up. There's also rising economies that don't give a fuck because they're trying to catch up with the rest of the world. Yup. Most of the major governments around the world and the largest corporations. Many of the rising economies are in this positing due to the selfishness of the historical actions of the leaders of countries with strong economies. > So yeah, I guess I take offense to blaming everyone. I see this "baw humanity sucks" far too much.. Well, it think it is the majorities fault at the moment. Yes its not a productive viewpoint, but an accurate one. > that's both insulting to yourself (do you suck? are you causing climate change?) and to those that try and make things better for all of us. "suck" is your wording, but yes I am selfish in terms of my environmental impact, much like the average person in any developed nation. I engage in activities which have negative effects on the environment without balancing these effects. From the thousands of people I have met in my life, I cant think of one who has a positive net effect on the environment - hence, people are stupid, including me :p

coldpie 10y ago

If you're in the US, you can be sure to vote for politicians that acknowledge that global warming is happening this November. It's not much, but it's a start. Hint: Such politicians will not have an R next to their name. Denying climate change is part of their core platform: https://prod-static-ngop-pbl.s3.amazonaws.com/static/home/data/platform.pdf https://prod-static-ngop-pbl.s3.amazonaws.com/static/home/da...