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> I'm an experience developer (about 30 years at this point), and about 12 years ago I decided to do a volunteer project for a nonprofit in PHP > mysql_xxxx fu

> I'm an experience developer (about 30 years at this point), and about 12 years ago I decided to do a volunteer project for a nonprofit in PHP > mysql_xxxx functions So, you used PHP 12 years ago and comment based on that. You have a point though. I used this internet thing about 17 years ago, it was terrible. Only dial-up. SLOW! And don't talk to me about browsers. Netscape? Internet Explorer? Ugh. Forget it. I don't care what they might have changed, or replaced or completely removed, its always terrible. The language/runtime have problems, just like every other language/runtime that exists, but complaining about a version from 12 years ago and comparing functions that aren't even part of the language anymore seems a little odd to me.

babyrainbow 10y ago
>You have a point though. I used this internet thing about 17 years ago, it was terrible. Only dial-up. SLOW! And don't talk to me about browsers. Netscape? Internet Explorer? Ugh. Forget it. I don't care what they might have changed, or replaced or completely removed, its always terrible. We have only one Internet. But we have a lot of alternatives for Php to choose from. If you have an Internet provider that gave you horrible service, will you give them another try even when your current provider is great in every way, just because the only good thing with your past provider was they gave you a connection in a day, instead of 3 days as with your current provider....
- corobo 10y ago
  After 12 years? I wouldn't consider them to be the exact same as when I left them at least.
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    But what is the reason why I would look back at PHP, when there have been better alternatives available for quite a while now?
    - corobo 10y ago
      I'll be honest I don't really care what languages people use, not my place to convince you back. Just saying there's quite high chances PHP has changed at least a tiny bit over the past 12 years
      - Drdrdrq 10y ago
        I started using PHP when it was in version 3 and still use it occassionally. It has changed, but not considerably. The function naming is still a mess (backwards compatibility), arrays are completely inappropriate (naming them "bags" would be better), some decisions were so baffling (safe mode and magic quotes, superglobals, square brackets for arrays...) that I simply don't trust PHP to ever get better. But there was a reason for experienced developers to use it - hosting. You could write a web app, ftp it somewhere and it would just work. There was no other platform aside from asp which would offer that. Nowadays this doesn't matter much, but 10 years ago it was great. As a language though? Ugly. Just plain ugly.
        krapp 10y ago
        I get safe mode, magic quotes and superglobals - but don't most languages use square brackets for arrays? It certainly doesn't seem like a controversial thing to do.
        stephenr 10y ago
        If php3 to php7 isn't a considerable change to you, I'm not sure any change to anything ever, would register as a change for you, would it?
  - user5994461 10y ago
    Left C 12 years ago...Came back to C this year. That's still the exact same thing.
SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
>And it's not asynchronous. There's not even a good reason to use a synchronous language for web development today. Not to mention the ease of running NodeJS code in a debugger, or running tests in a browser and debugging it there... This is still true today, and this fact alone makes it not worth trying out as a server language.
- stephenr 10y ago
  You just said you use Go for everything. Since when is Go asynchronous? Also, claiming that only the programming model and language that introduced the term "callback hell" should be used is a pretty big claim to make..
  - SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
    Go is asynchronous. [1] It's a huge point of the language, and why it's working its way to the top of the new TechEmpower benchmarks [2]. > "callback hell" It can be ugly to look at, but it's fast. And I thought we weren't using references to 10 years ago to judge a language? Promises minimize callback hell with a far better (more functional) interface, and async/await (usable today with transpilation) banish it entirely. [1] https://gobyexample.com/goroutines https://gobyexample.com/goroutines [2] Preliminary results: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/previews/round13/ https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/previews/round13/ -- Go has been seriously optimized over the past six months, so the last round of results is less impressive, but still strong: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/
    - stephenr 10y ago
      If using threads means the language is asynchronous to you, every language ever invented that has threads <including php> Is asynchronous. JavaScripts asynchronous nature is nothing like that of go/etc with threads: JavaScript is inherently single threaded with an asynchronous event loop. As for callbacks, who mentioned 10 years ago. promises were added to the ecma script last year. Edit: Your message seems to be inconsistent. Every failure or less than great situation in your favoured languages has just been fixed in the last few years. The things you complained about in another language were fixed/removed years ago but you say it's still just as bad.

babyrainbow 10y ago

>You have a point though. I used this internet thing about 17 years ago, it was terrible. Only dial-up. SLOW! And don't talk to me about browsers. Netscape? Internet Explorer? Ugh. Forget it. I don't care what they might have changed, or replaced or completely removed, its always terrible. We have only one Internet. But we have a lot of alternatives for Php to choose from. If you have an Internet provider that gave you horrible service, will you give them another try even when your current provider is great in every way, just because the only good thing with your past provider was they gave you a connection in a day, instead of 3 days as with your current provider....

corobo 10y ago
After 12 years? I wouldn't consider them to be the exact same as when I left them at least.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  But what is the reason why I would look back at PHP, when there have been better alternatives available for quite a while now?
  - corobo 10y ago
    I'll be honest I don't really care what languages people use, not my place to convince you back. Just saying there's quite high chances PHP has changed at least a tiny bit over the past 12 years
    - Drdrdrq 10y ago
      I started using PHP when it was in version 3 and still use it occassionally. It has changed, but not considerably. The function naming is still a mess (backwards compatibility), arrays are completely inappropriate (naming them "bags" would be better), some decisions were so baffling (safe mode and magic quotes, superglobals, square brackets for arrays...) that I simply don't trust PHP to ever get better. But there was a reason for experienced developers to use it - hosting. You could write a web app, ftp it somewhere and it would just work. There was no other platform aside from asp which would offer that. Nowadays this doesn't matter much, but 10 years ago it was great. As a language though? Ugly. Just plain ugly.
      - krapp 10y ago
        I get safe mode, magic quotes and superglobals - but don't most languages use square brackets for arrays? It certainly doesn't seem like a controversial thing to do.
      - stephenr 10y ago
        If php3 to php7 isn't a considerable change to you, I'm not sure any change to anything ever, would register as a change for you, would it?
- user5994461 10y ago
  Left C 12 years ago...Came back to C this year. That's still the exact same thing.

SomeCallMeTim 10y ago

>And it's not asynchronous. There's not even a good reason to use a synchronous language for web development today. Not to mention the ease of running NodeJS code in a debugger, or running tests in a browser and debugging it there... This is still true today, and this fact alone makes it not worth trying out as a server language.

stephenr 10y ago
You just said you use Go for everything. Since when is Go asynchronous? Also, claiming that only the programming model and language that introduced the term "callback hell" should be used is a pretty big claim to make..
- SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
  Go is asynchronous. [1] It's a huge point of the language, and why it's working its way to the top of the new TechEmpower benchmarks [2]. > "callback hell" It can be ugly to look at, but it's fast. And I thought we weren't using references to 10 years ago to judge a language? Promises minimize callback hell with a far better (more functional) interface, and async/await (usable today with transpilation) banish it entirely. [1] https://gobyexample.com/goroutines https://gobyexample.com/goroutines [2] Preliminary results: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/previews/round13/ https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/previews/round13/ -- Go has been seriously optimized over the past six months, so the last round of results is less impressive, but still strong: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/
  - stephenr 10y ago
    If using threads means the language is asynchronous to you, every language ever invented that has threads <including php> Is asynchronous. JavaScripts asynchronous nature is nothing like that of go/etc with threads: JavaScript is inherently single threaded with an asynchronous event loop. As for callbacks, who mentioned 10 years ago. promises were added to the ecma script last year. Edit: Your message seems to be inconsistent. Every failure or less than great situation in your favoured languages has just been fixed in the last few years. The things you complained about in another language were fixed/removed years ago but you say it's still just as bad.