14 ms·

A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and its Effect on the Web

212 points by ivarious 10y ago

EJTH 10y ago
To be fair, /pol/ is one of the best places to get happening news (Information about terror attacks that would otherwise be censored by mass media, information from the Syria conflict etc) There is a lot of shilling and a lot of trolling... It seems to me that /pol/ posts has become >50% shitposting from trolls and shills and less political discussion. The real influx of users into pol started with the european refugee crisis, not the presidential elections.
- Senji 10y ago
  There was that one time when posters from the Syria general thread helped by looking up images on google earth and had an artillery strike directed.
  - Joeboy 10y ago
    Can you (or somebody) explain this? It sounds interesting but I don't understand exactly what that sentence means.
    - praptak 10y ago
      Probably someone had a photo of a possible target but didn't know the location so they crowdsourced that to 4chan.
    - NotaSockPuppet8 10y ago
      It appears I can only find a version that has experienced some jpeg rot, but it should still be good enough to do the explaining: https://my.mixtape.moe/lnuyms.jpg https://my.mixtape.moe/lnuyms.jpg
    - 3dk 10y ago
      Here you go: http://imgur.com/gallery/5P1N1GI http://imgur.com/gallery/5P1N1GI Summary: 4 chan users identified a training site of ISIS and pinpointed it on google maps. One of the users knows a friend of the Russian Minister of Defense and sent him the information, resulting in an air strike.
      - astrodust 10y ago
        This is disturbing to say the least. Which group of "rebels" is this? There's a lot of factions here in play, some of which are downright scary, but others of which are just fighting to survive. Not that 4chan cares about these things. They just want to see people blown up.
        AvenueIngres 10y ago
        >Not that 4chan cares about these things. They just want to see people blown up. You understand 4chan isn't a single hive mind right? Each board has its own culture, and even moreso: each general thread has it own subculture. /sg/ (Syria General) is one of the best place to get data on the Syrian civil war. The folks there aggregate data from a massive set of sources and include people who actually live in Syria or can speak arabic. So you know, instead of parroting the same spam all around this thread. Maybe you should take two seconds to appreciate that you neither understand nor are willing to make an attempt at understanding what goes on there.
        astrodust 10y ago
        The problem with communities, online and otherwise, is they develop a certain prevailing attitude. These can either be weak (e.g. Reddit, 4chan) or strong (e.g. /r/The_Donald, /pol/) depending on how you delineate these. You can make a case that /sg/ is a good source of news, but it's part of 4chan. I'd rather follow individuals doing reporting on something more neutral like Twitter.
        AssadianSkpe 10y ago
        pol has a general stance towards the war in syria: america needs to GTFO it and let russia and syria deal with it (this stance predated Trump's). The rebels, and whom they are, are seen just as rebels. /sg/ is pro-assad. The fact this 'bias' exist doesn't mean it isn't a good source of information. Many neural parties quote something known as the Syrian human rights observatory, or participate/gain information from networks of dissemination more aligned to western narratives of the war, information that cannot be de-intermediated from those who pass them along. /sg/ is not aligned to that narrative. Astrodust, I think your understanding of politics and journalism is naive and one that deserves a thorough rehabilitation through a deep deep engagement with pol. /sg/ teaches anyone who dare engages with it that information, collection, dissemination, acting upon it, appreciating it, comes from collective intentions (not attitudes, reddit cultivates attitudes; 4chan cultivates intentions, the dynamic of the whole raiding culture, the whole you must do to participate instead of merely like/solicit likes aspect) and, if you become acquainted with pol, you will learn viscerally what collective intentions look like, you will see it elsewhere. Reddit is for the cuck, it is a circle jerk. the lack of identification, liking mechanism, and the culture of anonymity makes it less about affirming attitudes and more about intentions and the lack of moderation on chans is why/how intentions compete. to repeat: intentions vs attitudes. narratives vs bias. the differences between these concepts become incredibly illuminated if you engage with pol.
- Vaskivo 10y ago
  Every board in 4chan has it's amount of shitposting. One thing you start developing, as a user, is an semiconscious filter and ways to process the information. A *chan site has many layers a user must go through to finally fing a decent discussion (or the epic lulz). You have an outdated confusing UI, the sheer amount of useless content, the lingo and the highly offensive content. After you learn to process and filter all that, you start finding the really good stuff. Or, as I like to say, "Gold floats on shit. You just have to be brave and reach it"
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    /tg/ had a gentler introduction than most, as the Very Best of /tg/ is published on 1d4chan, so you start by seeing the very best of what the chan has to offer.
acqq 10y ago
It really looks like wasted money, if it was really financed and is not an elaborate trolling.
- rhaps0dy 10y ago
  I think the money was totally worth it, just for the fun we all had. It's a lot of people having fun. Although maybe the people who don't know about this (thus couldn't have fun) shouldn't have paid for it :\
  - acqq 10y ago
    So was it really financed from the tax money of Europeans? If it was, I am really sad. Then the authors shouldn't be proud of such an "achievement." If it was generated by the 4chan regulars with their own money, then at least it's not worth discussing it more here...
    - rconti 10y ago
      It makes me sad that every time any kind of research is done, someone has to denigrate it as a waste of money. While I don't care about "chan" culture (never visited one of the sites, don't need that in my life), I fully support research into things I may or may not like. Let the Universities decide where to spend their research budgets. You never know what will come out of it.
      - acqq 10y ago
        This wasn't a real research (to really discover something) though (read some other comments here like typon's) except to "prove" how successful trolling is. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12708090 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12708090
    - totony 10y ago
      Or Europe should stop giving away their taxpayers money :)
ivarious 10y ago
It's rather disappointing that the authors didn't talk about the biggest thing that has reshaped discussion in 4chan since years. The reply indicator. For people who don't go to 4chan, you can read it on http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/you-here-s-your-you http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/you-here-s-your-you. Basically, if someone else replied to your post, the post pointer will show a (You) word, showing that the poster replied to a post that you wrote. Moreover, the post number of posts that replied/quoted you will be attached to your own posts. Much-replied post will have a lot of link to the posts that replied them, and very visible when you skip through the thread. This one simple feature has changed 4chan. Before, posts are similar and anonymous since they don't have visual distinction between each other. You have to actually read their content to know what's inside. The reply indicator make controversial posts very visible and "famous" in the thread. Much like Reddit's voting system and Facebook likes or Twitter's retweets/favorites, 4chan now has its own post rating system. The difference is that Facebook likes and Reddit's vote system rewards popular posts that people agree with and liked. 4chan's "rating system" rewards controversial posts that people rebuke or laugh at. The presence of this reply indicator make people try to post controversial contents, and to be controversial by 4chan standards, your post have to be very, very controversial.
- the8472 10y ago
  I speculate that the ban on raids had a much bigger impact. Before that they were used for all kinds of things, mostly to cause mischief, occasionally even for a good purpose, e.g. op chanology. So this might have tied up and channeled a lot of the mischievous energy of the more active users. Now that it's banned we get more informal, less organized hit-and-run harassment.
  - Pigo 10y ago
    I miss the BattleToads threads, especially when they would record their calls to the Pawn Stars and GameStop stores. Or just visiting 4chanarchive to watch drama unfold in some previously massive thread. There just isn't anything like it on the Internet still, as far as I'm aware. Unless you enjoy a 'LIK DIS IF YOU CRY EVERTIM' Facebook post.
denzil_correa 10y ago
I know a lot of researchers who avoid 4chan due to fear. Given that context, in some sense this seems to be a bold step.
- hubert123 10y ago
  You know a 'lot'(!) of researchers who avoid 4chan? What exactly would they be researching or avoiding to research?
  - astrange 10y ago
    Asset pricing for rare Kumikos?
  - denzil_correa 10y ago
    They are not avoiding research. Online boards like 4chan are a great testbed to understand human behavior amongst other things. A lot of people avoid using 4chan as a testbed due to repercussions from conclusions that may not put 4chan in a good light. Example - https://twitter.com/emilianodc_/status/786296689481003008 https://twitter.com/emilianodc_/status/786296689481003008
- AssadianSkpe 10y ago
  They don't want the world to know where they live? /pol/ is a board of peace tho
thrwaway656 10y ago
This paper was shared on /pol/, here's a link to the (archived) thread if you're interested in reading the responses. http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/92760043/ http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/92760043/
- rhaps0dy 10y ago
  Some of the replies to the thread show mistakes in the paper. For example, Zimbabwe is marked as very active and very hateful. But it's probably just people with a VPN: doing that to get a "controversial" or "funny" country flag is a thing.
  - AssadianSkpe 10y ago
    Zimbabwe was known as South Rhodesia. South Rhodesia, to pol, is very significant culturally.
NietTim 10y ago
Can someone explain to me why they keep focussing on 4chan and not 'chans' in general? AFAIK 8chan's /pol/ has had a bigger impact this time around because they censor less. (Not censoring doxx information and such)
- nickthemagicman 10y ago
  Most average people don't even know what a 'chan' is or even know what 4chan is all about, except for the times it gets demonized by the media. And it becomes just associated with something sensational and negative. The higher ideal: the philosophical context of freedom through anonymity resulting in great creativity is completely drowned out by the petty stuff. There's a reason it creates a major portion of culture,memes, and ideas on the internet. It's one of the few places unimpenged by materialism or status or th ability of your boss to find your account. This means every one is simply judged by what ideas they create and I think thats a beautiful thing.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 10y ago
    This means every one is simply judged by what ideas they create and I think thats a beautiful thing. And it drives higher quality content because of it. Most people do not realize that a lot of the popular memes and internet jokes shared on more mainstream platforms originally came from the "chan" culture. To your point though the high quality content is often difficult to find in the cesspool of low-quality spam on these boards.
    - Trombone12 10y ago
      Lets be honest: memes aren't high quality content when compared to the types of free content available on the net. 4chan has spawned a lot of memes because it was one of the earliest places people appreciated that sort of low-effort anyone-could-do-it content, but to say it drives high quality content is to decry any competently drawn stick figure as bourgeois.
      - 10y ago
ue_ 10y ago
If you look at the remnants of the earlier chans (created between 1 and 3 years after 4chan) which never really gained much momentum, you'll see that they had a much different culture at the time. In a way I wish we could return to this idea of the "small chan", as a way of escaping the grinding politics and hate culture that's on some boards (like /pol/) which tends to leak over (jokingly or not) to the other boards.
- ivarious 10y ago
  I still remember when moot first created [s4s] a lot of people say that it can be a reset to the old chan culture.
trevelyan 10y ago
How does it take eight people to write this paper?
- egjerlow 10y ago
  From my experiences in astrophysics: Second author is supervisor, third, fourth, etc. are previous collaborators of supervisor that somehow have some 'moral' claim to supervisor's work because it remotely thematically touches upon previous work they did, and thus have provided 'inspiration' for the current work. It's a racket ;)
- contergan 10y ago
  Well, somehow that tax payer money has to be put to use. I love the rare Pepe collection at the end of this paper.
  - Kristine1975 10y ago
    If you like Pepe you'll like this download with 1250 Pepes: https://mega.nz/#!mUEkUABB!hawhAN8hV-tZI_5khyNkYiBKfhuryoE0CyXQH8VCKds https://mega.nz/#!mUEkUABB!hawhAN8hV-tZI_5khyNkYiBKfhuryoE0C... (via https://www.reddit.com/r/megalinks/comments/54umk3/memez_15k_ultra_dank_pepes/ https://www.reddit.com/r/megalinks/comments/54umk3/memez_15k...)
- pmyteh 10y ago
  Two people collected the data, two did the analysis and wrote the paper, three helped a bit, one got the grant which funded the lab. Or something similar. The incentives for giving credit to everyone who participated even a bit are quite strong: in most academic disciplines you get more than an eighth of a paper's worth of 'credit' for an eight-author paper.
  - antisthenes 10y ago
    Three people out of 8 to collect the rare pepes.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
ZoF 10y ago
Handing over ICANN control to the UN was a mistake. I have very little faith that this won't be used to censor free speech in the not-so-distant future.
hex12648430 10y ago
If you are a researcher looking for a 4chan dataset spanning a much longer time period and many different boards, I would recommend looking into the archive.moe database dump[0] that was uploaded to the Internet Archive after the owner decided to stop his activities. [0]: https://archive.org/download/archive-moe-database-201506 https://archive.org/download/archive-moe-database-201506
- JD557 10y ago
  I was recently working on a project to identify pepes in images and dumped a bunch of images from the /r9k/ archive using the 4chan API. If you are a researcher looking for a 4chan dataset for supervised learning, be aware that labeling the images is not a task for the faint of heart. When you browse an image board, you will have an implicit image filter: you will probably only open threads that interest you and that have been alive for a while. That does not hold for an image dump of all threads.
dogma1138 10y ago
"9. RARE PEPES In this Section we display some of our rare Pepe collection." Things that you have never thought would appear on a bonafide research paper for 800$. EDIT: 4Chan thread regarding this paper, this is worth the read on it's own. http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/92612923/a-longitudinal-measurement-study-of-4chans http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/92612923/a-longitudinal-m...
- loeber 10y ago
  The best is Footnote 2: "For readers unfamiliar with memes, we suggest a review of the documentary available at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ ."
  - smnscu 10y ago
    "The uploader has not made this video available in your country." Germany is full of surprises so far.
    - jshevek 10y ago
      Here is another link to the same documentary, though without the video: https://youtu.be/6_b7RDuLwcI?t=13s https://youtu.be/6_b7RDuLwcI?t=13s And if that doesn't work, someone else reproduced the same work here: https://youtu.be/m2ATf01v4hw?t=46s https://youtu.be/m2ATf01v4hw?t=46s
- mafribe 10y ago
  This sentence -- not to mention the rare pepe collection at the end -- made me pause a bit and wonder if the paper isn't a particularly elaborate chan troll. Clearly "rare pepe" is a chan in-joke.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    Rare Pepe is the "name" of the meme as far as the subject specific custom pepe images/shops go. But I still can't believe that there is a research paper out there where there is a section which describes the researcher's "collection" of rare pepe memes with visual aide samples.
Waterluvian 10y ago
Hate words by country is the most interesting part for me. I really want to see a deeper study done on that.
- NotaSockPuppet8 10y ago
  "Hate" is really not the right word in this context, as a lot of them are thrown around casually. Not necessarily due to deep-seated hatred but simply because it is not politically correct to use the words. To gain a sense of being contrarian to the mainstream, to titillate, to watch the reactions of those offended. For example the "-fag" suffix is applied to everything and practically synonymous with "-person". A namefag is someone who uses a username instead of remaining anonymous. A drawfag is someone who creates original art, it has a positive connotation. Even when discussing unfair monetary things the term kikes (jews) might be thrown around, just due to the historic association of jews with banking. Even users who present left-leaning positions (e.g. on renewable energy, healthcare or defense spending) use those terms because the associated concepts are ingrained in the conversation structure. I don't know about /pol/, but other boards use "my nigger" or humorous variations thereof as an expression of endorsement Use of the words might correlate with the sentiment of the user, but the correlation may be weaker than expected.
typon 10y ago
Mods should remove this obvious troll.
- nv-vn 10y ago
  Why? Have you tried reading the paper? There is actually interesting data and analysis in there.
  - typon 10y ago
    Yes I have read the paper. It seems like a lot of pandering to 4chan and /pol/. It's a clear example of an effort troll for the lulz. > recent events have brought the discussion board site 4chan to the forefront of the world’s collective mind Err, try polling even the American population and see how many know about the existence of 4chan. It is NOT at the forefront of the world's collective mind. > Even though 4chan has long been viewed as the “final boss of the Internet,” By whom? > Perhaps the least rare pepe. Really? A sarcastic/jokey remark in a caption for no reason at all. They have also embedded overtly racist images throughout the paper, which I'm not sure were necessary. This is another clear example of 4chan trolling: embed racist or offensive or funny imagery surrounded by serious sounding stuff so its 'hilarious' to watch someone discuss it seriously. I've been on 4chan since 2005 and pretty much grew up on it. This is just so obvious. In fact, I'm not even saying this isn't real data and actual work. I totally believe someone went through the effort of doing this work just so they can get "normies" to read through the paper and laugh when people take it seriously. Also, I've noticed that this .pdf crashes my Android Acrobat reader as well as my Chrome PDF reader. I would check for embedded scripts or weird stuff going on in this PDF.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
fingar 10y ago
These students are funded anyway and decided to add a publication on an area they love. They included their funding bodies because it is required by their funding agreement.
kyrre 10y ago
academic shitposting is still shitposting
- Balgair 10y ago
  /thread
jmcgough 10y ago
I've been really surprised how influential /pol/ has been this election, which has been really weird and a little scary. It's not uncommon to post something on 4chan stating that you have inside information on events that are going to happen over the next few days (which is fiction 99.9% of the time). Posts like this in /pol/ have been getting screenshotted and spread elsewhere on the web, where alt-right conspiracy nuts are latching on to them. I've tried explaining to a few people that it's 4chan and you can't take it seriously, but they're convinced that these posts are real.
- Freak_NL 10y ago
  It's fascinating to see how feasible it is to get something — anything — recognized as fact or actual trend by employing social media and excitable media. The 'bikini bridge' phenomenon comes to mind.
- colordrops 10y ago
  /pol/ uncovered the Paul Combetta posts on Reddit. So it's not all bullshit. Its crazy that they had enough of an effect to get the head of the FBI grilled by a house committee.
  - AvenueIngres 10y ago
    /pol/:/sg/ helped the Russian airforce identify rebels positions in Syria and destroy them. It is not all bullshit at all; there is a significant proportion of it that is undeniably childish garbage but there is the occasional gem as well.
    - cryoshon 10y ago
      source? if true, this would be a troubling precedent in the use of third party analysis in conducting military operations
      - konart 10y ago
        https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/4deu8r/pol_helps_coordinate_an_airstrike_on_moderate/ https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/4deu8r/pol_helps_coo... Can't find a better source. But this was the second time RuAF bombed the rebles camp after third party analysis (might be a coincidence ofc). There was a different image with Russian MoD's report on the matter.
sparkling 10y ago
By November 8th, /pol/ will have successfully memed a man into the white house, mark my words.
lake99 10y ago
Figure 15 with heat map of hate speech per post puts India, Pakistan, Thailand, Belarus, Zimbabwe, and South Korea as the leaders of the pack. In my limited experience on /pol, this paints a very misleading picture. I hardly ever see people from these countries posting there. (See Figure 4.) They can't just leave the figure as-is, without further explanation. The posters on 4chan (see dogma1138's post) are as surprised as I am that India features at all. To the contrary, India is commonly the target of scatological jokes. Although they acknowledge the use of VPN, they might be downplaying its usage. Without making an effort to disambiguate that (with assistance from 4chan admins) I don't see the point of making charts based on countries. If not disambiguate, discarding posts by Tor and VPN users is easy enough. I can't help but agree with the poster who wrote: >>Although it is a bit absurd, /pol/ has, some >>how, managed to place itself at the center of >world politics. > i can't continue reading this, this is insane.
- saint_fiasco 10y ago
  If you are in the US, keep in mind that those countries are in distant timezones. Because 4chan threads are so ephemeral, they could have entire threads to themselves while you are asleep and you wouldn't notice.
  - lake99 10y ago
    I'm in India at the moment, but I have lived in other timezones too. I must add that I'm not a regular there. I only go there when some promiment thread makes the nwes... like Tay, or Operation Google, or this. Other than that, my source for 4chan stuff is /r/4chan.
    - AssadianSkpe 10y ago
      Does the poo in the loo deter indian originating posters?
      - lake99 10y ago
        I don't know what to say to that. By its nature, 4chan deters nearly everyone! Indians included [1]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/55pizd/4chan_users_of_randia_why_the_fuck_is_that_site/ https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/55pizd/4chan_users_o...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
norea-armozel 10y ago
I don't like to be mean but I honestly don't see /pol/ has a big influence in the election or politics like some commentors have stated. First, most of the action /pol/ does outside of their board is mostly on Twitter and various open polls. I've never seen /pol/ do anything close to real life action. Not a single event or protest IRL. Not even a letter writing campaign. Just posting image macros. It's all in good fun I'm sure, but they're not going to change the opinions of voter blocs with Rare Pepes that's for sure.
- AssadianSkpe 10y ago
  Richard Spencer once said that politics to culture is mist to a lake. You cannot have politics without having culture. IRL actions are not gonna do squat (see: ows, arab spring) without cultural shifts. What pol is doing is more insidious in effect: it is shifting the culture that will enable the politics. If 4chan reach in memes is wide, as internet history has shown, and if the memes from pol become sentiments embraced by others outside of it, pol is creating the lake for whatever mist. To change politics, it requires a cultural change. Tumblr is another place on the internet that is a space for cultural change, albeit the opposite kind.
zerognowl 10y ago
Not forgetting 4chan's evil twin brother 8chan: https://8ch.net/pol/index.html https://8ch.net/pol/index.html And for more chans, look no further than: https://encyclopediadramatica.se/List_of_chans https://encyclopediadramatica.se/List_of_chans Whilst I appreciate 4chan was the original chan that started all the other chans off, people often forget the alternatives. A common complaint of the alternative chans is that 4chan has become too conservative and is too heavily moderated. Does anyone agree?

212 points by ivarious 10y ago

EJTH 10y ago

To be fair, /pol/ is one of the best places to get happening news (Information about terror attacks that would otherwise be censored by mass media, information from the Syria conflict etc) There is a lot of shilling and a lot of trolling... It seems to me that /pol/ posts has become >50% shitposting from trolls and shills and less political discussion. The real influx of users into pol started with the european refugee crisis, not the presidential elections.

Senji 10y ago
There was that one time when posters from the Syria general thread helped by looking up images on google earth and had an artillery strike directed.
- Joeboy 10y ago
  Can you (or somebody) explain this? It sounds interesting but I don't understand exactly what that sentence means.
  - praptak 10y ago
    Probably someone had a photo of a possible target but didn't know the location so they crowdsourced that to 4chan.
  - NotaSockPuppet8 10y ago
    It appears I can only find a version that has experienced some jpeg rot, but it should still be good enough to do the explaining: https://my.mixtape.moe/lnuyms.jpg https://my.mixtape.moe/lnuyms.jpg
  - 3dk 10y ago
    Here you go: http://imgur.com/gallery/5P1N1GI http://imgur.com/gallery/5P1N1GI Summary: 4 chan users identified a training site of ISIS and pinpointed it on google maps. One of the users knows a friend of the Russian Minister of Defense and sent him the information, resulting in an air strike.
    - astrodust 10y ago
      This is disturbing to say the least. Which group of "rebels" is this? There's a lot of factions here in play, some of which are downright scary, but others of which are just fighting to survive. Not that 4chan cares about these things. They just want to see people blown up.
      - AvenueIngres 10y ago
        >Not that 4chan cares about these things. They just want to see people blown up. You understand 4chan isn't a single hive mind right? Each board has its own culture, and even moreso: each general thread has it own subculture. /sg/ (Syria General) is one of the best place to get data on the Syrian civil war. The folks there aggregate data from a massive set of sources and include people who actually live in Syria or can speak arabic. So you know, instead of parroting the same spam all around this thread. Maybe you should take two seconds to appreciate that you neither understand nor are willing to make an attempt at understanding what goes on there.
        astrodust 10y ago
        The problem with communities, online and otherwise, is they develop a certain prevailing attitude. These can either be weak (e.g. Reddit, 4chan) or strong (e.g. /r/The_Donald, /pol/) depending on how you delineate these. You can make a case that /sg/ is a good source of news, but it's part of 4chan. I'd rather follow individuals doing reporting on something more neutral like Twitter.
        AssadianSkpe 10y ago
        pol has a general stance towards the war in syria: america needs to GTFO it and let russia and syria deal with it (this stance predated Trump's). The rebels, and whom they are, are seen just as rebels. /sg/ is pro-assad. The fact this 'bias' exist doesn't mean it isn't a good source of information. Many neural parties quote something known as the Syrian human rights observatory, or participate/gain information from networks of dissemination more aligned to western narratives of the war, information that cannot be de-intermediated from those who pass them along. /sg/ is not aligned to that narrative. Astrodust, I think your understanding of politics and journalism is naive and one that deserves a thorough rehabilitation through a deep deep engagement with pol. /sg/ teaches anyone who dare engages with it that information, collection, dissemination, acting upon it, appreciating it, comes from collective intentions (not attitudes, reddit cultivates attitudes; 4chan cultivates intentions, the dynamic of the whole raiding culture, the whole you must do to participate instead of merely like/solicit likes aspect) and, if you become acquainted with pol, you will learn viscerally what collective intentions look like, you will see it elsewhere. Reddit is for the cuck, it is a circle jerk. the lack of identification, liking mechanism, and the culture of anonymity makes it less about affirming attitudes and more about intentions and the lack of moderation on chans is why/how intentions compete. to repeat: intentions vs attitudes. narratives vs bias. the differences between these concepts become incredibly illuminated if you engage with pol.
Vaskivo 10y ago
Every board in 4chan has it's amount of shitposting. One thing you start developing, as a user, is an semiconscious filter and ways to process the information. A *chan site has many layers a user must go through to finally fing a decent discussion (or the epic lulz). You have an outdated confusing UI, the sheer amount of useless content, the lingo and the highly offensive content. After you learn to process and filter all that, you start finding the really good stuff. Or, as I like to say, "Gold floats on shit. You just have to be brave and reach it"
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  /tg/ had a gentler introduction than most, as the Very Best of /tg/ is published on 1d4chan, so you start by seeing the very best of what the chan has to offer.

acqq 10y ago

It really looks like wasted money, if it was really financed and is not an elaborate trolling.

rhaps0dy 10y ago
I think the money was totally worth it, just for the fun we all had. It's a lot of people having fun. Although maybe the people who don't know about this (thus couldn't have fun) shouldn't have paid for it :\
- acqq 10y ago
  So was it really financed from the tax money of Europeans? If it was, I am really sad. Then the authors shouldn't be proud of such an "achievement." If it was generated by the 4chan regulars with their own money, then at least it's not worth discussing it more here...
  - rconti 10y ago
    It makes me sad that every time any kind of research is done, someone has to denigrate it as a waste of money. While I don't care about "chan" culture (never visited one of the sites, don't need that in my life), I fully support research into things I may or may not like. Let the Universities decide where to spend their research budgets. You never know what will come out of it.
    - acqq 10y ago
      This wasn't a real research (to really discover something) though (read some other comments here like typon's) except to "prove" how successful trolling is. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12708090 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12708090
  - totony 10y ago
    Or Europe should stop giving away their taxpayers money :)

ivarious 10y ago

It's rather disappointing that the authors didn't talk about the biggest thing that has reshaped discussion in 4chan since years. The reply indicator. For people who don't go to 4chan, you can read it on http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/you-here-s-your-you http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/you-here-s-your-you. Basically, if someone else replied to your post, the post pointer will show a (You) word, showing that the poster replied to a post that you wrote. Moreover, the post number of posts that replied/quoted you will be attached to your own posts. Much-replied post will have a lot of link to the posts that replied them, and very visible when you skip through the thread. This one simple feature has changed 4chan. Before, posts are similar and anonymous since they don't have visual distinction between each other. You have to actually read their content to know what's inside. The reply indicator make controversial posts very visible and "famous" in the thread. Much like Reddit's voting system and Facebook likes or Twitter's retweets/favorites, 4chan now has its own post rating system. The difference is that Facebook likes and Reddit's vote system rewards popular posts that people agree with and liked. 4chan's "rating system" rewards controversial posts that people rebuke or laugh at. The presence of this reply indicator make people try to post controversial contents, and to be controversial by 4chan standards, your post have to be very, very controversial.

the8472 10y ago
I speculate that the ban on raids had a much bigger impact. Before that they were used for all kinds of things, mostly to cause mischief, occasionally even for a good purpose, e.g. op chanology. So this might have tied up and channeled a lot of the mischievous energy of the more active users. Now that it's banned we get more informal, less organized hit-and-run harassment.
- Pigo 10y ago
  I miss the BattleToads threads, especially when they would record their calls to the Pawn Stars and GameStop stores. Or just visiting 4chanarchive to watch drama unfold in some previously massive thread. There just isn't anything like it on the Internet still, as far as I'm aware. Unless you enjoy a 'LIK DIS IF YOU CRY EVERTIM' Facebook post.

denzil_correa 10y ago

I know a lot of researchers who avoid 4chan due to fear. Given that context, in some sense this seems to be a bold step.

hubert123 10y ago
You know a 'lot'(!) of researchers who avoid 4chan? What exactly would they be researching or avoiding to research?
- astrange 10y ago
  Asset pricing for rare Kumikos?
- denzil_correa 10y ago
  They are not avoiding research. Online boards like 4chan are a great testbed to understand human behavior amongst other things. A lot of people avoid using 4chan as a testbed due to repercussions from conclusions that may not put 4chan in a good light. Example - https://twitter.com/emilianodc_/status/786296689481003008 https://twitter.com/emilianodc_/status/786296689481003008
AssadianSkpe 10y ago
They don't want the world to know where they live? /pol/ is a board of peace tho

thrwaway656 10y ago

This paper was shared on /pol/, here's a link to the (archived) thread if you're interested in reading the responses. http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/92760043/ http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/92760043/

rhaps0dy 10y ago
Some of the replies to the thread show mistakes in the paper. For example, Zimbabwe is marked as very active and very hateful. But it's probably just people with a VPN: doing that to get a "controversial" or "funny" country flag is a thing.
- AssadianSkpe 10y ago
  Zimbabwe was known as South Rhodesia. South Rhodesia, to pol, is very significant culturally.

NietTim 10y ago

Can someone explain to me why they keep focussing on 4chan and not 'chans' in general? AFAIK 8chan's /pol/ has had a bigger impact this time around because they censor less. (Not censoring doxx information and such)

nickthemagicman 10y ago
Most average people don't even know what a 'chan' is or even know what 4chan is all about, except for the times it gets demonized by the media. And it becomes just associated with something sensational and negative. The higher ideal: the philosophical context of freedom through anonymity resulting in great creativity is completely drowned out by the petty stuff. There's a reason it creates a major portion of culture,memes, and ideas on the internet. It's one of the few places unimpenged by materialism or status or th ability of your boss to find your account. This means every one is simply judged by what ideas they create and I think thats a beautiful thing.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 10y ago
  This means every one is simply judged by what ideas they create and I think thats a beautiful thing. And it drives higher quality content because of it. Most people do not realize that a lot of the popular memes and internet jokes shared on more mainstream platforms originally came from the "chan" culture. To your point though the high quality content is often difficult to find in the cesspool of low-quality spam on these boards.
  - Trombone12 10y ago
    Lets be honest: memes aren't high quality content when compared to the types of free content available on the net. 4chan has spawned a lot of memes because it was one of the earliest places people appreciated that sort of low-effort anyone-could-do-it content, but to say it drives high quality content is to decry any competently drawn stick figure as bourgeois.
    - 10y ago

ue_ 10y ago

If you look at the remnants of the earlier chans (created between 1 and 3 years after 4chan) which never really gained much momentum, you'll see that they had a much different culture at the time. In a way I wish we could return to this idea of the "small chan", as a way of escaping the grinding politics and hate culture that's on some boards (like /pol/) which tends to leak over (jokingly or not) to the other boards.

ivarious 10y ago
I still remember when moot first created [s4s] a lot of people say that it can be a reset to the old chan culture.

trevelyan 10y ago

How does it take eight people to write this paper?

egjerlow 10y ago
From my experiences in astrophysics: Second author is supervisor, third, fourth, etc. are previous collaborators of supervisor that somehow have some 'moral' claim to supervisor's work because it remotely thematically touches upon previous work they did, and thus have provided 'inspiration' for the current work. It's a racket ;)
contergan 10y ago
Well, somehow that tax payer money has to be put to use. I love the rare Pepe collection at the end of this paper.
- Kristine1975 10y ago
  If you like Pepe you'll like this download with 1250 Pepes: https://mega.nz/#!mUEkUABB!hawhAN8hV-tZI_5khyNkYiBKfhuryoE0CyXQH8VCKds https://mega.nz/#!mUEkUABB!hawhAN8hV-tZI_5khyNkYiBKfhuryoE0C... (via https://www.reddit.com/r/megalinks/comments/54umk3/memez_15k_ultra_dank_pepes/ https://www.reddit.com/r/megalinks/comments/54umk3/memez_15k...)
pmyteh 10y ago
Two people collected the data, two did the analysis and wrote the paper, three helped a bit, one got the grant which funded the lab. Or something similar. The incentives for giving credit to everyone who participated even a bit are quite strong: in most academic disciplines you get more than an eighth of a paper's worth of 'credit' for an eight-author paper.
- antisthenes 10y ago
  Three people out of 8 to collect the rare pepes.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

ZoF 10y ago

Handing over ICANN control to the UN was a mistake. I have very little faith that this won't be used to censor free speech in the not-so-distant future.

hex12648430 10y ago

If you are a researcher looking for a 4chan dataset spanning a much longer time period and many different boards, I would recommend looking into the archive.moe database dump[0] that was uploaded to the Internet Archive after the owner decided to stop his activities. [0]: https://archive.org/download/archive-moe-database-201506 https://archive.org/download/archive-moe-database-201506

JD557 10y ago
I was recently working on a project to identify pepes in images and dumped a bunch of images from the /r9k/ archive using the 4chan API. If you are a researcher looking for a 4chan dataset for supervised learning, be aware that labeling the images is not a task for the faint of heart. When you browse an image board, you will have an implicit image filter: you will probably only open threads that interest you and that have been alive for a while. That does not hold for an image dump of all threads.

dogma1138 10y ago

"9. RARE PEPES In this Section we display some of our rare Pepe collection." Things that you have never thought would appear on a bonafide research paper for 800$. EDIT: 4Chan thread regarding this paper, this is worth the read on it's own. http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/92612923/a-longitudinal-measurement-study-of-4chans http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/92612923/a-longitudinal-m...

loeber 10y ago
The best is Footnote 2: "For readers unfamiliar with memes, we suggest a review of the documentary available at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ ."
- smnscu 10y ago
  "The uploader has not made this video available in your country." Germany is full of surprises so far.
  - jshevek 10y ago
    Here is another link to the same documentary, though without the video: https://youtu.be/6_b7RDuLwcI?t=13s https://youtu.be/6_b7RDuLwcI?t=13s And if that doesn't work, someone else reproduced the same work here: https://youtu.be/m2ATf01v4hw?t=46s https://youtu.be/m2ATf01v4hw?t=46s
mafribe 10y ago
This sentence -- not to mention the rare pepe collection at the end -- made me pause a bit and wonder if the paper isn't a particularly elaborate chan troll. Clearly "rare pepe" is a chan in-joke.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  Rare Pepe is the "name" of the meme as far as the subject specific custom pepe images/shops go. But I still can't believe that there is a research paper out there where there is a section which describes the researcher's "collection" of rare pepe memes with visual aide samples.

Waterluvian 10y ago

Hate words by country is the most interesting part for me. I really want to see a deeper study done on that.

NotaSockPuppet8 10y ago
"Hate" is really not the right word in this context, as a lot of them are thrown around casually. Not necessarily due to deep-seated hatred but simply because it is not politically correct to use the words. To gain a sense of being contrarian to the mainstream, to titillate, to watch the reactions of those offended. For example the "-fag" suffix is applied to everything and practically synonymous with "-person". A namefag is someone who uses a username instead of remaining anonymous. A drawfag is someone who creates original art, it has a positive connotation. Even when discussing unfair monetary things the term kikes (jews) might be thrown around, just due to the historic association of jews with banking. Even users who present left-leaning positions (e.g. on renewable energy, healthcare or defense spending) use those terms because the associated concepts are ingrained in the conversation structure. I don't know about /pol/, but other boards use "my nigger" or humorous variations thereof as an expression of endorsement Use of the words might correlate with the sentiment of the user, but the correlation may be weaker than expected.

typon 10y ago

Mods should remove this obvious troll.

nv-vn 10y ago
Why? Have you tried reading the paper? There is actually interesting data and analysis in there.
- typon 10y ago
  Yes I have read the paper. It seems like a lot of pandering to 4chan and /pol/. It's a clear example of an effort troll for the lulz. > recent events have brought the discussion board site 4chan to the forefront of the world’s collective mind Err, try polling even the American population and see how many know about the existence of 4chan. It is NOT at the forefront of the world's collective mind. > Even though 4chan has long been viewed as the “final boss of the Internet,” By whom? > Perhaps the least rare pepe. Really? A sarcastic/jokey remark in a caption for no reason at all. They have also embedded overtly racist images throughout the paper, which I'm not sure were necessary. This is another clear example of 4chan trolling: embed racist or offensive or funny imagery surrounded by serious sounding stuff so its 'hilarious' to watch someone discuss it seriously. I've been on 4chan since 2005 and pretty much grew up on it. This is just so obvious. In fact, I'm not even saying this isn't real data and actual work. I totally believe someone went through the effort of doing this work just so they can get "normies" to read through the paper and laugh when people take it seriously. Also, I've noticed that this .pdf crashes my Android Acrobat reader as well as my Chrome PDF reader. I would check for embedded scripts or weird stuff going on in this PDF.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

fingar 10y ago

These students are funded anyway and decided to add a publication on an area they love. They included their funding bodies because it is required by their funding agreement.

kyrre 10y ago

academic shitposting is still shitposting

Balgair 10y ago
/thread

jmcgough 10y ago

I've been really surprised how influential /pol/ has been this election, which has been really weird and a little scary. It's not uncommon to post something on 4chan stating that you have inside information on events that are going to happen over the next few days (which is fiction 99.9% of the time). Posts like this in /pol/ have been getting screenshotted and spread elsewhere on the web, where alt-right conspiracy nuts are latching on to them. I've tried explaining to a few people that it's 4chan and you can't take it seriously, but they're convinced that these posts are real.

Freak_NL 10y ago
It's fascinating to see how feasible it is to get something — anything — recognized as fact or actual trend by employing social media and excitable media. The 'bikini bridge' phenomenon comes to mind.
colordrops 10y ago
/pol/ uncovered the Paul Combetta posts on Reddit. So it's not all bullshit. Its crazy that they had enough of an effect to get the head of the FBI grilled by a house committee.
- AvenueIngres 10y ago
  /pol/:/sg/ helped the Russian airforce identify rebels positions in Syria and destroy them. It is not all bullshit at all; there is a significant proportion of it that is undeniably childish garbage but there is the occasional gem as well.
  - cryoshon 10y ago
    source? if true, this would be a troubling precedent in the use of third party analysis in conducting military operations
    - konart 10y ago
      https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/4deu8r/pol_helps_coordinate_an_airstrike_on_moderate/ https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/4deu8r/pol_helps_coo... Can't find a better source. But this was the second time RuAF bombed the rebles camp after third party analysis (might be a coincidence ofc). There was a different image with Russian MoD's report on the matter.

sparkling 10y ago

By November 8th, /pol/ will have successfully memed a man into the white house, mark my words.

lake99 10y ago

Figure 15 with heat map of hate speech per post puts India, Pakistan, Thailand, Belarus, Zimbabwe, and South Korea as the leaders of the pack. In my limited experience on /pol, this paints a very misleading picture. I hardly ever see people from these countries posting there. (See Figure 4.) They can't just leave the figure as-is, without further explanation. The posters on 4chan (see dogma1138's post) are as surprised as I am that India features at all. To the contrary, India is commonly the target of scatological jokes. Although they acknowledge the use of VPN, they might be downplaying its usage. Without making an effort to disambiguate that (with assistance from 4chan admins) I don't see the point of making charts based on countries. If not disambiguate, discarding posts by Tor and VPN users is easy enough. I can't help but agree with the poster who wrote: >>Although it is a bit absurd, /pol/ has, some >>how, managed to place itself at the center of >world politics. > i can't continue reading this, this is insane.

saint_fiasco 10y ago
If you are in the US, keep in mind that those countries are in distant timezones. Because 4chan threads are so ephemeral, they could have entire threads to themselves while you are asleep and you wouldn't notice.
- lake99 10y ago
  I'm in India at the moment, but I have lived in other timezones too. I must add that I'm not a regular there. I only go there when some promiment thread makes the nwes... like Tay, or Operation Google, or this. Other than that, my source for 4chan stuff is /r/4chan.
  - AssadianSkpe 10y ago
    Does the poo in the loo deter indian originating posters?
    - lake99 10y ago
      I don't know what to say to that. By its nature, 4chan deters nearly everyone! Indians included [1]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/55pizd/4chan_users_of_randia_why_the_fuck_is_that_site/ https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/55pizd/4chan_users_o...

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

norea-armozel 10y ago

I don't like to be mean but I honestly don't see /pol/ has a big influence in the election or politics like some commentors have stated. First, most of the action /pol/ does outside of their board is mostly on Twitter and various open polls. I've never seen /pol/ do anything close to real life action. Not a single event or protest IRL. Not even a letter writing campaign. Just posting image macros. It's all in good fun I'm sure, but they're not going to change the opinions of voter blocs with Rare Pepes that's for sure.

AssadianSkpe 10y ago
Richard Spencer once said that politics to culture is mist to a lake. You cannot have politics without having culture. IRL actions are not gonna do squat (see: ows, arab spring) without cultural shifts. What pol is doing is more insidious in effect: it is shifting the culture that will enable the politics. If 4chan reach in memes is wide, as internet history has shown, and if the memes from pol become sentiments embraced by others outside of it, pol is creating the lake for whatever mist. To change politics, it requires a cultural change. Tumblr is another place on the internet that is a space for cultural change, albeit the opposite kind.

zerognowl 10y ago

Not forgetting 4chan's evil twin brother 8chan: https://8ch.net/pol/index.html https://8ch.net/pol/index.html And for more chans, look no further than: https://encyclopediadramatica.se/List_of_chans https://encyclopediadramatica.se/List_of_chans Whilst I appreciate 4chan was the original chan that started all the other chans off, people often forget the alternatives. A common complaint of the alternative chans is that 4chan has become too conservative and is too heavily moderated. Does anyone agree?